Nissan GT-R Superior?
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you're all warned! lol
you're all warned! lol
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I was going to quote you about critical reading PubMed papers that I have to do for my research but thats not here nor there so I didn't.
If I may ask what field you are in?
That being said, it's just silly to insult a brand because of what else they make. Rice-eater, you of all people should know not to judge anyone considering your field. I am sure there is some level of being jaded that comes with working for a while, but I always walk in with an open mind. I think its fair to apply that to any situation.
I'm not saying the Nissan has as much heritage or as much prestige as a P-car: I've said it once, I'll say it again, I don't care if the GTR is faster I'd take a GT3, but not a 997. Just me.
But your snobbery is off-putting and I cannot stand that. I am sure you are farther along in your career than I am but that being said, being in the medical field, I don't expect that mindset, and yes I'm not naive as to think it doesn't exist, I said I don't expect it.
I'm going to eat a burrito, nature's serotonin pill.
No snobbery here, strada. Just stating my preference. I have little evidence from Nissan to prove to me that the GTR is a FUN, rewarding car, that I'd like to own. I agree, it's one hell of a car for the price. I'd think more highly of it, if it weren't for the media blitz that came with its release.Originally Posted by stradaONE8
Touche salesman...for I too have an uncle (Family Guy reference for those of you wondering wtf)I was going to quote you about critical reading PubMed papers that I have to do for my research but thats not here nor there so I didn't.
If I may ask what field you are in?
That being said, it's just silly to insult a brand because of what else they make. Rice-eater, you of all people should know not to judge anyone considering your field. I am sure there is some level of being jaded that comes with working for a while, but I always walk in with an open mind. I think its fair to apply that to any situation.
I'm not saying the Nissan has as much heritage or as much prestige as a P-car: I've said it once, I'll say it again, I don't care if the GTR is faster I'd take a GT3, but not a 997. Just me.
But your snobbery is off-putting and I cannot stand that. I am sure you are farther along in your career than I am but that being said, being in the medical field, I don't expect that mindset, and yes I'm not naive as to think it doesn't exist, I said I don't expect it.
I'm going to eat a burrito, nature's serotonin pill.
I'll give you an example in medicine (please forgive for the rant). This new drug, called Celebrex was regarded as the Best drug for palliative treatment of Rheumatoid and Osteo Arthritis since sliced bread, because it relieved pain and did not cause Peptic ulcer (all the bene's of NSAIDs without the risks). Tons of clinical trials funded by Pfizer touted it as the number one drug. It was released through the FDA in record time and it was prescribed and sold to millions.
Fast forward a few years later. A retrospective, multi-centered analysis found that the medication increased the risk of cardiac morbidity and mortality. The FDA sent out tons of warnings and pulled the drug from the market (it is still available under special uses though). The warnings stated that you were more likely to die from cardiac causes than if you were NOT on it.
Sorry to get off topic. The comparison of medicine and clinical trials to car journalism is very off, as are the subsequent end points. My point is this: It's better to be conservative and let the hype die down before jumping into something, especially if there are clear Biases involved.
The GTR will soon show it's true colors without the hype. I'm actually all for it being a performance bargain. But on a pure performance comparison (without money involved), if you take the best Porsche 911 and the best Nissan, the GT2 spanks it. I'll try to take a test drive to figure for myself if it's as fun as everyone says it is.
BTW, specialty is internal medicine. Mainly hospital based now-a-days. Good thing I'm not a plastic surgeon speaking about the GTR's looks
Cheers
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I don't blame you for wanting to stay here on 6spd. A couple of minutes on Nagtroc really highlights the necrosis of intellect in today's society. The wit and "tech" there is barely qualified for bathroom walls. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. Why not distance yourself from the "Mensa-lite" import tossers and join us "*******" as they call us?Originally Posted by Z07
Actually it's a really stupid analogy but it adequately highlights the barrier of ignorance that plagues technological development.
come on Z07 is my favorite banned member!
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Excuse me?Originally Posted by Control It
come on Z07 is my favorite banned member!
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For me? Originally Posted by E36-RAT
Ban and delete needed a.s.a.p^^^
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. Can you explain what unheard of things in the media you are speaking of? The things is, if you want to cast such a shadow of doubht on the media results, you might as well hold the same standard for media results for any other car ever tested...especially so in any type of Viper versus Z06, Evo versus Sti comparisons. IMO, such beliefs are simply conspirisit theories, as you are either relying on very little evidence/fact, or are stretching a certain detail to support your argument against what is already set in stone. It's basically a "your word" verse "their word" deal. I respect the fact that you are not gullible enough to believe everything you hear though, but I think at this point we can accept the GT-R as being the better performing track, in terms of lap time...regardless of which car we like or think is superior. That's just the way i see it. Oh ya, I hate the GT-R fanboys just as much as you or the next guy, and have a great disdain for some of their over the top antics and rhetoric. I do cast doubt on anything media that doesnt make sense, doesnt matter what, your assumption would be that I take anything for face value as long as the marquee I want or expect to win does so, and that is not the case, I call a spade a spade when there is one. I know a lot about the Corvettes, Mustangs, Porsches, BMW's and Mercedes so I make calls based on the things I do know and study.
I respect your opinion on speed between the GT-R and 997 TT but there isnt substantial evidence IMO to show such. I recall a time where I was the only one still saying the TT would win in a straight line, and since there have been some results that have shown it, now there are a lot more. I have yet to see decent driving in a 997 TT on the same track as the GT-R, list the magazine, or best motoring I can point out where inexplicable poor driving in the TT is demonstrated. And to go further if you look at the best motoring time attack when the TT had the bad tires, the driver tried his best to keep sliding at a minimum, but it was simply the tires, and the modded GT-R on fresh tires that came out ahead. Won by 2 seconds and yet they do a test later on where the GT-R walks the TT down from a corner behind and leaves it??????????
Where is the consistency? I think Nissan have been the only people that have tested both cars to the max so far, and their results were hair splittingly close, I choose to stick with that. There is much more where this came from, so when you'd like me to continue, let me know.
The GT-R has been a long time coming for fans here in the U.S., as you would expect for Japans ultimate sports car, there is obviously a lot of hype/rumors/drama/doubht surrounding it's performance results.The only review that I've seen in which I thought was overly biased was the Best Motoring Shootout, which I saw coming from a mile away, as they are known for being an overly biased Japanese media source. Some of the early quoted ring times (7:15's and such) were definately dramatized, but these sources were eventually accepted as not being credible. All the 7:2x V-spec buzz means nothing to me at this point in time, until I see a time published by Nissan, as that is the case with any Manufacturer. Some of the GT-R fans are already prancing around this time, and trying to put it to the big guy, even though it has yet to be set in stone and confirmed by Nissan. I think it's a pretty obvious fact that the GT-R is slower than both the Turbo and Z06 once into the triple digits, which is now just being accepted by the GT-R community, and realized by media sources. No dramatizations there. We have seen a fairly large disparity in times from different tracks between the GT-R and its competitors. The 5 second gap between the GT-R and its fellow competitors, the Z06 and Turbo at Buttonwillow, was likely due to the fact that the GT-R was REALLY well suited to the BW #13 layout. A 1:57 is really fast around this track, and +2:00 minutes lap is in line for a Z06 on this layout. IMO, more traditional tracks would likely see a much closer gap between the three though. I'm anxious to see the results for Car and Driver shootout at VIR. My 2 cents on the matter. Cheers.
Originally Posted by timeattack07gt
HC: Long time no talk man . Can you explain what unheard of things in the media you are speaking of? The things is, if you want to cast such a shadow of doubht on the media results, you might as well hold the same standard for media results for any other car ever tested...especially so in any type of Viper versus Z06, Evo versus Sti comparisons. IMO, such beliefs are simply conspirisit theories, as you are either relying on very little evidence/fact, or are stretching a certain detail to support your argument against what is already set in stone. It's basically a "your word" verse "their word" deal. I respect the fact that you are not gullible enough to believe everything you hear though, but I think at this point we can accept the GT-R as being the better performing track, in terms of lap time...regardless of which car we like or think is superior. That's just the way i see it. Oh ya, I hate the GT-R fanboys just as much as you or the next guy, and have a great disdain for some of their over the top antics and rhetoric. I do cast doubt on anything media that doesnt make sense, doesnt matter what, your assumption would be that I take anything for face value as long as the marquee I want or expect to win does so, and that is not the case, I call a spade a spade when there is one. I know a lot about the Corvettes, Mustangs, Porsches, BMW's and Mercedes so I make calls based on the things I do know and study.I respect your opinion on speed between the GT-R and 997 TT but there isnt substantial evidence IMO to show such. I recall a time where I was the only one still saying the TT would win in a straight line, and since there have been some results that have shown it, now there are a lot more. I have yet to see decent driving in a 997 TT on the same track as the GT-R, list the magazine, or best motoring I can point out where inexplicable poor driving in the TT is demonstrated. And to go further if you look at the best motoring time attack when the TT had the bad tires, the driver tried his best to keep sliding at a minimum, but it was simply the tires, and the modded GT-R on fresh tires that came out ahead. Won by 2 seconds and yet they do a test later on where the GT-R walks the TT down from a corner behind and leaves it??????????
Where is the consistency? I think Nissan have been the only people that have tested both cars to the max so far, and their results were hair splittingly close, I choose to stick with that. There is much more where this came from, so when you'd like me to continue, let me know.
The GT-R has been a long time coming for fans here in the U.S., as you would expect for Japans ultimate sports car, there is obviously a lot of hype/rumors/drama/doubht surrounding it's performance results.The only review that I've seen in which I thought was overly biased was the Best Motoring Shootout, which I saw coming from a mile away, as they are known for being an overly biased Japanese media source. Some of the early quoted ring times (7:15's and such) were definately dramatized, but these sources were eventually accepted as not being credible. All the 7:2x V-spec buzz means nothing to me at this point in time, until I see a time published by Nissan, as that is the case with any Manufacturer. Some of the GT-R fans are already prancing around this time, and trying to put it to the big guy, even though it has yet to be set in stone and confirmed by Nissan. I think it's a pretty obvious fact that the GT-R is slower than both the Turbo and Z06 once into the triple digits, which is now just being accepted by the GT-R community, and realized by media sources. No dramatizations there. We have seen a fairly large disparity in times from different tracks between the GT-R and its competitors. The 5 second gap between the GT-R and its fellow competitors, the Z06 and Turbo at Buttonwillow, was likely due to the fact that the GT-R was REALLY well suited to the BW #13 layout. A 1:57 is really fast around this track, and +2:00 minutes lap is in line for a Z06 on this layout. IMO, more traditional tracks would likely see a much closer gap between the three though. I'm anxious to see the results for Car and Driver shootout at VIR. My 2 cents on the matter. Cheers.
Personally I dont think there is any way the GT-R is 5 seconds faster if at all than a Z06 on any course. PERIOD. And Road and Track with a Nissan factory driver (wow, what a coincedence huh?) doesnt help when all stillen does is whine about RWD cars, he did the same thing when he tested the vette vs the viper, and got poor results out of both. He drove like a PRO in the GT-R and like a novice DE driver in the Z06 and TT, and since you've tracked enough to know the difference and how easy it is to switch back and forth for a good driver, I expect you know what I'm talking about.
I also await the Lightning lap results, but surely hope that no new drivers pop up out of nowhere. It wouldnt surprise me at this point
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I would gladly pay 70k to get under your skin, as this car clearly has.
MEDIA CONSPIRACY, OH NOES!!! Everyone is in on it! The car has better tires! The drivers are all stupid except me!
Would you like some Kleenex to go along with your astroglide?? You are the biggest load of whiny adults I have ever met.
HC just claims everyone is an idiot but him regardless of what you try to say. But then somehow expects us to give credence to his testing of a GTR in the future...right, that wont be biased, sorry to step on your ego faux-rohrl...
I will give you the difference between the GTR and the 997 seems inflated due to crappy driving and certain other factors, I WILL AGREE there.
But to give the car no credit and act like because you own a P-car and all the heritage that Porsche has is somehow reason why the Nissan sucks??
GET THE **** OFF your high horses.
You bought a car, you aren't Mother Teresa. I'm sure you eat sleep and breath Porsche history but if I were to mention some facts, you'd be cleverly off to wikipedia to get some background to act like you knew it all.
Sorry but you weren't part of their history and just because you know about it doesn't mean ****. Nissan has heritage too, but who cares, you are buying a car, not a reach around from history you morons.
People buy cars to enjoy them, and not everyone makes enough to by a 100k+ car...but last I checked, money isn't exactly a measure of a human being, but convincing you snobbish morons of that fact would be harder than understanding string theory. Please use the argument "it's just a Nissan" again, I do love it, it's very logical and well thought out. Whatever shall any of the normal working folk do, perhaps just go kill themselves cause their car didn't come from Stuttgart. Outside of your money, you people are just sad.
I have met a lot of P-car owners that are so down to earth and easy going, but some of you are absurd in your god-complex cause you make a bit of change. But I suppose you are the reason they have the stigma. I would gladly drive a Nissan everyday just to not be lumped in with you all.
Frankly, I am going into a profession where I will probably make P-car money, but I think I'll buy V-spec and a Nissan Sentra just to annoy you morons. Then you can tell me about your interiors and your heritage to help you sleep at night...
And HC, I await your fanboy comments, sadly you wont realize that its out of my distaste for people like you and rice eater that my love for a GTR grows. It's sheer joy just to see how much you are annoyed by all this, perhaps just go open up your P-car history book to make yourself feel better??
7:25! Scoreboard!!
I call you an idiot because you constantly jump into conversations without knowing the whole story and bashing on one side of the fence. Fools jump in and you seem to have a nack for it. Take this thread for example, going along for several pages, then you jump in here with your roid rage attacking people in anger. That is ignorant to me, and I'm no longer inclined to explain anything to you as you dont do anything but turn threads into personal arguements and beefs.Originally Posted by stradaONE8
Another set of insults because the GTR is as fast if not faster than your respective P-car?? I would gladly pay 70k to get under your skin, as this car clearly has.
MEDIA CONSPIRACY, OH NOES!!! Everyone is in on it! The car has better tires! The drivers are all stupid except me!
Would you like some Kleenex to go along with your astroglide?? You are the biggest load of whiny adults I have ever met.
HC just claims everyone is an idiot but him regardless of what you try to say. But then somehow expects us to give credence to his testing of a GTR in the future...right, that wont be biased, sorry to step on your ego faux-rohrl...
I will give you the difference between the GTR and the 997 seems inflated due to crappy driving and certain other factors, I WILL AGREE there.
But to give the car no credit and act like because you own a P-car and all the heritage that Porsche has is somehow reason why the Nissan sucks??
GET THE **** OFF your high horses.
You bought a car, you aren't Mother Teresa. I'm sure you eat sleep and breath Porsche history but if I were to mention some facts, you'd be cleverly off to wikipedia to get some background to act like you knew it all.
Sorry but you weren't part of their history and just because you know about it doesn't mean ****. Nissan has heritage too, but who cares, you are buying a car, not a reach around from history you morons.
People buy cars to enjoy them, and not everyone makes enough to by a 100k+ car...but last I checked, money isn't exactly a measure of a human being, but convincing you snobbish morons of that fact would be harder than understanding string theory. Please use the argument "it's just a Nissan" again, I do love it, it's very logical and well thought out. Whatever shall any of the normal working folk do, perhaps just go kill themselves cause their car didn't come from Stuttgart. Outside of your money, you people are just sad.
I have met a lot of P-car owners that are so down to earth and easy going, but some of you are absurd in your god-complex cause you make a bit of change. But I suppose you are the reason they have the stigma. I would gladly drive a Nissan everyday just to not be lumped in with you all.
Frankly, I am going into a profession where I will probably make P-car money, but I think I'll buy V-spec and a Nissan Sentra just to annoy you morons. Then you can tell me about your interiors and your heritage to help you sleep at night...
And HC, I await your fanboy comments, sadly you wont realize that its out of my distaste for people like you and rice eater that my love for a GTR grows. It's sheer joy just to see how much you are annoyed by all this, perhaps just go open up your P-car history book to make yourself feel better??
7:25! Scoreboard!!
LIKE I TOLD YOU BEFORE, GO GET SOME KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJETC AT HAND SO YOU CAN PROVIDE A CREDIBLE ARGUEMENT!!!!!!
OR SHUTUP................
P.S. I hope you get a GT-R and love it nearly as much as I love my 996 TT, if so you'll be a very happy man, until you meet me on the track.
I think I'm going to have to pretend to be a Nissan fan again just to get some discussion going. I've been waiting for the fanboys to respond with more of Nissans racing past, but the only argument they seem to stick with is, Well your a snob. Ya! Well you're a Poopy Head. They're the true fair weather fan and seem to only know what their team is doing today. I used to be a huge Nissan fan back in the days of the GTP-ZX http://youtube.com/watch?v=G_f8SNV9Bdk&feature=related How many remember when the GT-P class was in an uproar about a manufacture that was dominating the series that shouldn't be. Not only that they were doing it with a retired actor. The media made such a big thing about it, the other drivers got togther and brought a bunch of residents from the local nursing home to the track and had them all wearing Paul Newman fan club T-shirts. The next race Paul retaliated by having a diaper service make deliveries to the other teams. Those were great days in american racing. True fans would know this stuff and I was a strong Nissan fan. Now quite making me argue your point for you, Know your team and you won't have to resort to the Poopy head defence anymore.
The potential of the 956 unfolds. Porsche again wins the World Endurance Championship, Jacky Ickx secures his second consecutive world championship title. Twelve 956 vehicles are delivered to private motorsport customers. Bob Wollek not only wins the European Endurance Championship in a Joest Racing Porsche sportscar but also takes overall victory at the Deutschen Rennsport Meisterschaft (German Racing Championship), for which the Frenchman is again rewarded with the Porsche Cup as the most successful private driver. In Japan, Australiaīs Vern Schuppan secures the Group C Drivers‘ Championship in a 956. The manufacturers‘ title goes to Porsche.
In the United States Wayne Baker claims the IMSA GTO Championship in a Porsche 934, whilst Porsche’s US sports boss Al Holbert collects the GTP category title driving a March Porsche featuring 956 technology.
At the Le Mans 24 Hour race Hurley Haywood, Al Holbert and Vern Schuppan drive the works 956 with starting number three to victory ahead of team mates Jacky Ickx and Derek Bell. Whilst the new works driver Stefan Bellof together with Jochen Mass retire in the third works 956 with engine damage, Porsche customer teams secure eight of the top ten places, with Philippe Alliot, Mario and Michael Andretti carrying off third place in their Kremer Porsche. Only ninth position goes to Peter Sauberīs BMW team.