T3H @W$0MN3$$!>>

 

here we go again... did you forget the gt-r is 50k less? heav you've lost so much sleep over this havent you lol

 

Havent lost a wink.

You get what you pay for, or less. Always works out that way.

 

For many the 911 tt or gt3 are out of their price range but they still want the performance and the gtr is a great alternative.

 

I havent said anything to the contrary. I agree.

 

awesome.. I think everyone can agree that the gtr has it's place in the market and thats the only arguement to be made. It's difficult to tell which is better just reading magazine articles. Many contradict eachother and driving conditions and circumstances vary during each test. No-one can argue though from the looks of the performance figures they look like they are great contenders.
Wether the gt-r is faster out of the box than a 997tt doesn't really matter because it's 50k less. With just 20-30k in mods the car would tear apart a 997tt and your still at least 20k under budget from a 997tt yet far outperforming it. So for me, and I think for most with some simple logic, the performance figures don't really matter for the 997tt because it's not a bang for the buck car with vehicles like the z06 and gtr on the market. It's simply pointless to argue performance figures because if that was all you where concerned about then you wouldn't buy either of these vehicles. You would simply budget in the fastest car with mods (because some cars are much cheaper to mod) your pocketbook could handle.
The way I look at it. GTR, better than a 997tt? In some aspects yes, in others no. Anyone who says either vehicle is better in every way is ignorant.

 

I feel like you forgot a lot about the history of quality control.
Old Ferrari's and Porsches sure cost a bundle before the modern era of 6-sigma tolerance standards, but they fell apart about as often if not more than most "cheap" cars. So yes, in the last 5-10 years, Porsche has stepped up to the plate and their cars are among the best in quality, but it wasn't always the case.
So that argument IMO, is not always relevant.

Another more current example being, Mercedes quality being below that of nearly ever car manufacturer until the CLS came out.
So there, two examples of how buying a 20k-30k Toyota/Honda etc would be better quality than a 50+k Merc or Porsche (although again, that has changed now).

 

And on more direct terms I don't think nissan/datsun has ever displayed a lack of quality.

 

I thought heavy chevy was only going to have one post in this thread to "KEEP IT SHORT" well that was a lie!!! just like everything else he says!! i watched the edmunds video from america and that driver in the GTR was the worst, he was all over the place and could't handle the car properly, i think it was a setup by porsche and as i looked closer at the video it was actually CHRIS HARRIS driving the GTR and he's about as good in it as he is in gt3 when the gtr beat it, QUITE SIMPLE SETUPT, SETUP IT STINKS!!!!

 

Strada- I'm talking about now, not then. Back in the day you could sell a name brand even if it was crappy, these days, some still sell, but if it's crap EVERYONE knows about it.


I dont remember any time that Nissan has been low quality, but the GT-R is not a luxury car, the suspension is pretty brutal and the gearbox clunky, you dont get Porsche Service, you arent limited to dealers you can go to, you dont have to have the same guy that works on a basic car like a sentra be your main tech with a couple of classes in GT-R 101. You wont feel like you're sitting in a 100k car, you wont look like you're sitting in a 100k car.

The difference is in the details. Recent times are showing that anyone can make a fast car, heck, guys here can go build one in their garage with scrap parts. But the total package is what Porsche has to offer, and no GT-R will change that. The GT-R would not sell for 130k, but the TT sells just fine and has for many years. There is a reason for that and it's not all in the name.

Even luxury car makers like BMW couldnt sell a 760Li or Z8 very well in the mid 100's. People only pay a certain dollar amount for years after year after year if it's worth it to them, and the Porsche has proven that it's worth 130k + to many many people. So they are obviously getting what they paid for, and most are return customers.

I'm not saying the GT-R isnt worth what the MSRP is, but you are still getting what you pay for, and maybe a little more if Nissan is taking a hit on this car as everyone suspects. 5 years of developement will not come back with such limited production numbers very fast, and there is obviously lots of marketing for the worldwide launch. But still, how many GT-Rs would sell at 80k? 90k? 100k? And Porsche can sell just as many TT's at 130 k. That has to tell you something.

 

Ireland are you a PRO DRIVER ? Care to share your PRO DRIVER credentials? when you say someone can't drive? At least the GT-R drivers didn't drift every turn.

I am sure the HORRIBLE Driver can out drive you. Let's not make it any more or any less than what it was. You Porsche Haters or **** Stirrers are really annoying.

I don't care what you say to tell me this and that. I can wikipedia anything as well and make it look pretty.

If no one can contribute in a postive way or at least make valid arguements with SOMETHING THEY ACTUALLY HAVE DRIVEN OR OWN please don't participate on the BASHING of the cars.

I have not said anything negative about the GT-R(looks wise perhaps but it is subjective) but I will not give it all the credit that the magazines want me to give to it.

Until I drive it or know someone who owns one and drives it plently enough to give me real world feedback. I am not stating anything one way or another.

Most of the magazine drivers can outdrive me so I do not judge them harshly.

Okay off the meds now Where is gotboost? LOL

 

1) I know I know, I stated that it was before too and tried to give a current example also. You know me, I like to be the Devil's Advocate...


2) Did you drive one already for an appreciable amount of time? If so why haven't you posted a thorough write up, or did I just miss the thread somewhere??
I will have a time in a GTR soon enough here in July I believe, will post pics and etc when it happens (keeping my fingers crossed that nothing happens between now and then) and proceed to watch the thread explode like all others. Just gotta hold out until then to see what it's all about.


3) That's a great point, but again as explanation for why that might be.
In our culture especially, niche products always have had diehard/cult followings regardless of price once they have established themselves through legitimate history or by WOM and mimicry. Porsche obviously has the former to it's name, and I think it would take a great many blunders for them to loose their status, thankfully they never fail to push the envelope...so I doubt that happening anytime soon, but they have definitely set themselves up to be able to sell at 130k, just like Ferrari has done so above 200k and more...

 

Alpine you Rang? Tired of these magazine racers. Hey where is Akira? He hasn't shown himself since I last schooled him on basic stock market 101. Did he take my advice and register for some economics classes at his school?

I agree with you. I never knocked the GTR either. None of us are in any kind of position where we can advocate the GTR until we have first hand seat time in them....

 

I havent driven one, but from reading Leh who has and several reports on it, it there is no reason to doubt that the gearbox is clunky for being DSG as most all of them are that way, even the Audi's are clunky. And almost every writeup on the car so far says unless you are pedal to the metal it's really clunky.

As for the ride compliance, there is only one way to keep a car that heavy level during cornering, and it's sways/spring rates/dampening, I havent seen a whole lot of body roll for a car that should given it's weight. And all of the reviews of it are similar, not very street friendly. Great for track, not great for street.

Yes, you are correct, Porsche and Ferrari have a very cult following, as does the GT-R. I think the difference is that Porsche has no choice but to step up their game. Posers, collectors, ballers etc. will buy a Ferrari because of the name and shiny red paint and it's status symbol.


I think the GT-R needs some time to be considered durable, there has already been gearbox/limpmode issues on a wide scale in Japan. So when the car is out and thrashed on in the US which I bet is unlike any other country (except the middle eastern countries) for thrashing, it will earn somestripes/

 

LOL yeah he is reading up to take his Series 6 and 7 so you better watch out!!

GO BONDS MARKET GO!! US Backed Securities were high today! YAY..Thank you Foreign investors : )

A friend is getting one and he already wants to race me. I told him I am not in highschool anymore and he laughed. I will get some seat time in that. As heavy said the stiffness in the suspension and chassis will not translate well n the streets. If they soften it up too much for compliance then it might lose its edge. We will all see soon enough.