Mike, thanks for clarifying that issue.

Duffy, I know, I wanted to bring up this issue again for those that didn't read the entire thread.

 

Hi Cannga,

Clay has our new version 2 software for the tip 997TT, which started as a custom tune on Clay's car. We had been testing the version 2 on a manual car for the previous month and were excited to get the program on a tip as well. We have just released both the manual and tiptronic version 2 calibrations to all of our distributors ( just under 200 hundred of them). Here is a link to the somemore release info.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ase-997tt.html

 

Hi Khoi,

Wait till you get version 2. It has even more kick than the version 1 software. This torque is real not just throttle sensitivity adjustments on 1 bar of boost. The GIAC version 2 program runs just over 1.4 bar down low close to .1 bar more than our version 1 software. In fact it is about .1 bar of boost more throughout the revrange and the EGT are still in line with a completely stock car.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ase-997tt.html

 

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Thanks Clay. I am glad to hear that you are enjoying your car. And my deepest apologies for not delivering your plots in a timely manner.

 

Andrew (& Mike/Todd),


Thank you. I’ve cross posted this thread to another forum (www.rennteam.com) since it contains such interesting info. I’ve been poring over the pdf file that Robert provided above. My understanding is that, unlike GIAC’s flashloader system, the Revo Select Plus allows one to set the amount of boost and ignition timing advance and air fuel mixture requested by the engine ECU.
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Sorry for this somewhat pointed question, but I need to get straight to the topic to learn quicker: If Revo’s system seems to provide such flexibility, why doesn’t GIAC do the same?
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Am I understanding this correctly, that GIAC system does provide something *similar* if not exactly the same, and does it automatically, no? For example, you mentioned the GIAC Pump Gas Calibration has some number of boost tables and 4 RON based ignition maps to utilize depending on each situation.
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It does seem the Revo is more for advanced users, as for example it requires data logging, and more importantly, the ability of users to interpret the data acquired AND correlate with seat-of-pants observation. I assume the advantage is it provides more power for any given situation?

 

nice

 

No problem -- I appreciate the work GIAC did and the performance of the car more than a pretty graph.

 

Hi Cannga,

Sorry for the late response. It occurred to me on the way into work today that no one got back to you on these questions.

Let me see if I can put Revo's approach into perspective for you. Please note that none of my observations are meant to be negative.

First, please understand that Revo's system is not a "custom tuning" solution for the end user. True custom tuning allows one to change the shape of the air/fuel, ignition timing, and boost curves independently of each other. What Revo does is pre-load a bunch of different profiles that have different combinations of air/fuel, timing, and boost curves and then allows the end user to select these combos via an external switching device. So in essence, they are doing something similar to what GIAC does.

However, where GIAC and Revo differ is in the amount of combinations they make available to the end user. This is either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what kind of user you are.

Let me use a suspension analogy. The far majority of street drivers have no use for a four way adjustable coilover system. A four way adjustable system allows the end user to adjust the compression and rebound stiffness of the shock independently, as well as for low speed and high speed bumps. Further, the height can be adjusted. All of these choices may sound like a great thing, but in reality, unless you have the skill and opportunity to actually tune in for all these parameters, you can end up with a combination that at the very least is a guess at an optimized setting, and at the worst a car that handles worse than stock. That is why you will find very few people purchasing such a complicated system for their street car. The concept is not a good fit for the actual behavior of the end user. However, there are people that get the most enjoyment from their car by constantly fiddling with it and testing out new stuff, and for them this amount of choices can be a good thing.

So you need to ask yourself, are you someone who has the time and inclination to tinker with the engine parameters of your car in order to optimize its power? Or are you someone who simply wants to install pre-optimized software right out of the box? We have found that while the concept of self-tweaking can be appealing to some users, in reality they never use a feature like that.

Whether or not Revo or GIAC software is ultimately more powerful vs the other is still up for debate.

I hope that all makes sense.

 

Todd,

Sorry I did not see your response until now. First, interesting that you mentioned the suspension analogy. I think I posted something very similar in one of the threads I started on Bilstein. That is, unless you are a very experienced AND advanced driver, AND your installer has plenty of experience dealing with amateurs , trying to play around with spring rates, rebound/compression rates could be the road that leads straight to automotive hell. Prior to installing my Bilstein PSS10, I read numerous posts on suspension settings and have seen this "hell" more than once -- owners forever searching for the "one setting." IMHO, something basic like Bilstein B16/PSS10 Damptronic IS already the answer for a significant majority of "us" amateurs; no need for further adventure.

I think I understand your answer re. GIAC very well. Consider the sheer number of GIAC dealers, the reputation, the lack of negative reports, and that I believe even some Porsche dealers install GIAC, it is indeed a very very compelling choice. I've pretty much made my decision; just a matter of when.

Thanks again (to both AWE and GIAC and the various users) for your patience and for taking time to answer my very noobish questions.

 

Yes, I think the suspension analogy works very well here.

I truly do not think your questions were noobish at all. The whole intent of this thread was to try to clearly and decisively explain how the G.I.A.C. system worked, and why we felt it was the clear leader.

There seems to be a very common belief that all software out there is essentially the same, which is exactly what we were trying to target with this thread.

I hope others feel free to ask any similar questions they may have. We're here to help.

 

1. Usually when I'm at the track I will top up my tank with race gas when it's still got premium gas still in the tank (say 1/2 or 1/3) with race gas. When you mix different octanes like this which setting do you use on the hand flashloader? What, if any, problems might arise with an incorrect Flashloader setting for the octane level of gas in the tank?

2. If you make a mistake (for us old guys) and select the wrong setting what happens when you drive?

Hopefully even with my driving skill level I'd notice if I selected valet mode by mistake.

Thanks in advance.

 

2. If you make a mistake (for us old guys) and select the wrong setting what happens when you drive?

 

Hi Kafka,

If you are running a pump/100 mix I would definitely stay in the pump gas program to receive full benefit of the increased octane. With the pump file active, adding higher octane in with your pump fuel will still allow for more power as it will switch to the highest of the 4 primary timing maps in the file. Whereas, switching to the 100 octane map might create a reverse effect switching the DME into one of the lower "limp" type timing maps.

Regarding mixing, I should note that if your fuel gauge is basically on "Empty" and you fill up with an overwhelming majority of 100, 104 or 109 octane fuel, switching into race mode will be fine. 20/80, 30/70, etc... pump/100 mixtures are more generally what I am referring to above.

In terms of safety if the car is switched into a race mode mistakenly. Well, it's funny you should ask. We actually had one of our local test cars come to our dyno for testing on PURE 91 octane set in race mode (as it had been for the previous 10 days since he had filled up with 91 after a track day). The owner noted no pinging or knock issues with the car whatsoever over the course of those days which is why he did not think to switch it. We logged the car on the dyno with it still in race mode and on pump gas and, our calibration was doing its job pulling 10-12 degrees of timing in one of the lower timing maps. Obviously, I do NOT recommend this, but I mention it because it is a testament to the safeties that we leave intact in the 997TT mapping. As noted previously, the DME does have multiple timing maps and still has the ability to switch to a limp map if need be. Additionally, the DME can also retard boost and add fuel in an effort to protect the engine.

Nevertheless, checking the program is very cut and dry with our system as it only requires plugging in the flashloader and pressing the read button with the ignition switched to the accessory or on position. I know everyone makes mistakes from time to time regardless of age, though.

 

Hi Austin,

1. What is a limp map please and what does the car do in limp mode, say on regular octane gas? What sort of situations would cause a GIAC car to go into limp mode?

2. When you switch from one mode to another, by pressing that button on the flashloader, is there any visual or audio confirmation that the chech has ACTUALLY been made successfully?

TIA.

 

I suppose I should have used better terminology than "limp." The safety timing maps as they might more appropriately be called are simply lower timing request maps that the programming can switch. This can happen for a myriad of reasons such as electronic hardware failures (boost control, EGT, primary O2 sensors), Intake air temperatures and/or EGTs climbing out of spec, octane level too low.

When I change modes in my cars, I always make it a point to hit the read button and ensure that the switch took place. It doesn't really take any longer and makes for good peace of mind.