Hello again!

A while back I posted that I had bought a V12V from a dealership here in California, and that after the sale was completed the dealer realized it wasn't California compliant as it had no catalytic converters. It took 6 weeks, but I finally got the car with a "pass" smog certificate. Once I took it in for a post purchase inspection, actually 2 post purchase inspections (one independent local shop and one AM dealership) I was told by both places that the "cats" that were installed were completely illegal in CA and nothing more than O2 spacers with small catalytic converters in them (picture attached of the Fabspeed O2 spacers).

I confronted the dealer with this and he is adamant that these are legal catalytic converters. I happen to have a contact with a California Bureau of Automotive Repair investigator (for those of you non-Californians, they're the ones that inspect any vehicle believed to be illegal in someway) and they confirmed that the parts absolutely do not meet California requirements as these do not actually have all of the exhaust flowing through them. I also reached out to Fabspeed directly (super great guys) and even they said they doubted it was a legal "stand in" for the actual catalytic converters.

So here's my question for any California AM owners with modified exhaust systems: Have you ever removed your cats and then used something like this and been legal (I mean legit legal and not hoping they don't look under the car when you get it smogged)? I know most people say to just put the cats back on the exhaust every two years for the smog, but that's not an option as the entire exhaust system is custom and there is no way to find a new, OEM cat for it (as California requires).

Before I start getting the "Why are you even doing this" or "Just let it go and hope you don't get caught," I'm not willing to do that and then get stuck with the bill for a whole new exhaust system 2 or more years down the road. I'd also be screwed if I ever went to sell it as I know it's not California compliant. Yes, I know California is quite possibly the worst state for vehicle regulations, but moving because my car isn't allowed here would be a quick way to a divorce. Finally, yes, I love the exhaust system, and no I don't want to see it go, but I just don't want to get screwed down the road.

Thanks for any input.

 

The longer you wait to take action the less chance you will have for any resolution. Was that a CA dealer that sold you the car? If so they have committed a criminal act. How did you get it to pass smog in CA as it would never pass the visual? Unfortunately for you, the dealer can now claim that it passed smog and you must have modified the exhaust. Can you prove that the exhaust was that way when it was passed? Those devices are meant to fool your cars computer (and DMV computer) and make it think the required cats are present. Since smog now is done only with an obd2 readiness check you might get away with it as those devices won’t throw any codes. If the smog station does a proper visual, which they are now required to do, you will fail, be sent to the referee, where you will likely be subject to prosecution for having that device on your vehicle. BTW, the referee has the power to impound your vehicle on the spot. The smog station that passed that car in CA broke the law as well and didn’t do a proper visual. You are the one who will be hurt by this. If you do go to sell the car “as is” you better not do it in CA or any other smog strict state.

 

So yes, the dealer was a California dealer. Fortunately for me, all of the communication about the sale was done via email so I have written documentation of him acknowledging the problem and stating that he installed the parts to make it "legal." This is one of the reasons why I had it checked within 2 weeks of receiving it. I don't know how he got it to pass, but I'm willing they went to a place that they normally use because they know it won't get visually inspected. I'm really fortunate that I'm acquainted with a referee so as soon as I got the denial response I went right to him. There hasn't been an official complaint filed yet as I'm trying to let the dealer step up and do the right thing, but that is the next step. BAR already wants to know who smogged it and who did the installation work so they can talk to them, but I told them I would only file the complaint if it didn't get resolved on its own.

Thanks for the feedback on that. I figured I'd just get bashed for choosing to get rid of an amazing exhaust system. My biggest fear is exactly what you touched on about getting the vehicle impounded or being accused of being the person that is trying to fool the smog test. Plus, I don't want to worry about getting in more trouble if I try to sell it.

 

As mentioned above, dealer is in CA, they should be held responsible. ( smog station who did the actual smog check, they'll have BAR's undercover group keeping an close eye on them & maybe they''ll get a citation to start) I know this because I'm certified Smog tech in CA (25+ years) I say I'd get it sorted out right now since you have email chain that shows that you didn't do anything illegal, since BAR knows that you have a car that is NOT legal with CA emission standard, they have right to impound your car until it's fixed properly. Pretty much your VIN & License plate is in Black book with state. Go after dealer or get your $$ back & move on to another car. Trust me, you don't want headache down the line. it's getting tougher every year with smog regulations. GOOD LUCK.

 

Start putting together a binder of evidence with all emails, texts and work orders and receipts. That dealer doesn’t know it but his **** is cooked. He broke the law selling you a non emissions compliant car....he broke the law installing non CARB approved cats...he broke the law getting you a phony smog check...Document everything and keep a list of witness names, workplace, phone numbers...assume the dealer will deny everything so be prepared to prove any allegations of wrongdoing with hard evidence. Forget any “he told me” stuff as it is hearsay and not admissible. I’m not an attorney but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

 

I'd Get the Dealer to Refund Exactly What Retail Cost Are For: Factory Cats & Labor Replacement, Put The $$ in your Pocket & Worry about it Later....


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Hi Joe. Thanks so much for your reply. I emailed over to your company and got a call the next day from one of the guys there. They were a ton of help and took as much time as I needed to understand everything. I know California emission laws are horrible to deal with, so it's really frustrating getting this done. I appreciate the help, and your time to type up that reply.

 

Just a little update for everyone who cares to read.

First of all, thank you to everyone who chimed in. I was really interested to see what the responses would be, but they made me feel a lot better about the route I'm taking. As it stands right now, the dealership is adamant that they have done nothing wrong and that the exhaust/emission system is completely legal in California. When presented with two different shops reports on it, as well as the information I gathered after speaking directly with a BAR investigator, they said they didn't care and basically told me to pound sand. I replied with a demand letter stating that I was not willing to return the car and that I expected them to uphold their half of the contract. Nothing back yet so it looks like I file the BAR report tomorrow.

For those of you in California that haven't had this awesome experience, the way it's looking to go is that after filing the BAR complaint an investigation will be started. They will come inspect my car and determine once and for all if it is legal or not. If it's determined to be illegal, they will start investigating the dealership, smog shop, and the shop where the products were installed. If they determine any laws were broken (it's pretty clear they were), they will file charges with the Orange County District Attorney's Office (criminal and civil). I already spoke with a DA and found out how it will go once they get it.

Moral of the story, it would probably have been cheaper for them to pay the money to replace my exhaust system. I'd really rather not have to go through all of this after finally finding my dream car, but I guess if I've waited this long, I can wait a little longer. Plus, if he's done it to me he may have done the same thing to other customers.

 

Andy, it is really too bad you have run into one of the few creatures (dealers) who does not realize just how serious the State, BAR and CARB are about emissions law and those that break it. It appears the dealer thinks if you can fool the computer and DMV then it’s legal. As with anything that involves government the process will seem to take forever. I do have one concern, however. The State will punish the perp and you can take some solace in that but what about your loss of use and the cost to fix this. If the dealer files bankruptcy and reopens under another name you could be left in the cold. I think the small claims limit in Ca is $10k. If you are out more than that or wish civil penalties you will have to sue and buy a lawyer a new Porsche instead. With your BAR friend and expert mechanics as witnesses and the fact that you still have the illegal parts, photos and documentation, I would file a small claims suit ASAP.

 

Not Get Off Subject, But Lately People Just S*CK!!

I Had Not 1,2,3 But 4 Car Incidents in 13 Months, NONE My Fault, Every Driver Changed Story Later, Every Adjuster Tried to Burn Me, Well they got the Wrong Guy....

Thought I Would Just "Go Away" (what they want you to do) I Had Proof & Used it With & Without & Attorney, 100% Paid on 3 $$$, 1 to Go.

Best For Last, Hit by a Car on my Bike, guy On Wrong side Of Road, Ran Stop sign, Admitted It, Adjuster says No Deal???
Cop was a Jerk Didn't wanna do his Job, ( I fully support Law BTW), But I Ordered the Body Cam, ALL Done..
I'll Win That as well.