"Fantastic 4" ~ e92 M3 vs RS4 vs C63 vs IS-F
#16
08-24-2008, 11:25 AM
Personally I base very little on the mag rags. Never been a magazine racer.
You need real life experience.
I have a hard time gripping the statement that the IS-F will beat the M3.
The RS4 is very nice due to its weight it is no major threat. I have personal knowledge on this one. The RS4 is only 200 lbs less than my E60 M5.
I want to see a run between the IS-F and the M3. From a sheer performance issue the IS-F for is at the bottom of the list.
The C63 will outgrunt all of them.
Handling goes to the RS4.
Ranger
You need real life experience.
I have a hard time gripping the statement that the IS-F will beat the M3.
The RS4 is very nice due to its weight it is no major threat. I have personal knowledge on this one. The RS4 is only 200 lbs less than my E60 M5.
I want to see a run between the IS-F and the M3. From a sheer performance issue the IS-F for is at the bottom of the list.
The C63 will outgrunt all of them.
Handling goes to the RS4.
Ranger
#17
08-24-2008, 12:53 PM
Personally I base very little on the mag rags. Never been a magazine racer.
You need real life experience.
I have a hard time gripping the statement that the IS-F will beat the M3.
The RS4 is very nice due to its weight it is no major threat. I have personal knowledge on this one. The RS4 is only 200 lbs less than my E60 M5.
I want to see a run between the IS-F and the M3. From a sheer performance issue the IS-F for is at the bottom of the list.
The C63 will outgrunt all of them.
Handling goes to the RS4.
Ranger
You need real life experience.
I have a hard time gripping the statement that the IS-F will beat the M3.
The RS4 is very nice due to its weight it is no major threat. I have personal knowledge on this one. The RS4 is only 200 lbs less than my E60 M5.
I want to see a run between the IS-F and the M3. From a sheer performance issue the IS-F for is at the bottom of the list.
The C63 will outgrunt all of them.
Handling goes to the RS4.
Ranger
Last edited by h20tt; 08-24-2008 at 01:15 PM.
#18
08-24-2008, 02:52 PM
The IS-F is faster than the M3 in every situation I've ever seen where both cars are at the same place, same time, same conditions... I also do not subscribe to magazine racing, however, they do in fact pit the cars at the same place, same time, same conditions, so I look at the differences b/w the trap speed and ET to a lesser degree. The F is a flat out faster car, sorry...
I have raced 2 M3's in my F and I pulled BOTH of them without problem (albeit a SLOWWWW pull). There have been many documented races with the F pulling in each situation...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQSy1lLxE
I have raced 2 M3's in my F and I pulled BOTH of them without problem (albeit a SLOWWWW pull). There have been many documented races with the F pulling in each situation...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQSy1lLxE
#19
08-24-2008, 03:48 PM
h20tt I viewed the video. Nice time but in my local tracks when you jump the light/start you get no time.
Now houstonT you've made your claims and that's fine but bring videos to the table. Post videos running an M3. Lets say run 50 mph to 160 mph.
I know guys in Dallas and surrounding area from the M5 Board who have new M3's. I will contact them to seek out and produce some head to head runs.
I still can not see an IS-F beating an M3. I continue to contend, I want to see valid videos, 1/4 mile runs and rolling starts as I said 50 to 160 mph.
Lets test the metal on this one!!
BTW I also laugh at how in recent pass comments the IS-F is included in the same group or class of car as the E60 M5.
My E60 M5 will sweep the floor with the IS-F.
Cheers gentlemen.
Ranger
Now houstonT you've made your claims and that's fine but bring videos to the table. Post videos running an M3. Lets say run 50 mph to 160 mph.
I know guys in Dallas and surrounding area from the M5 Board who have new M3's. I will contact them to seek out and produce some head to head runs.
I still can not see an IS-F beating an M3. I continue to contend, I want to see valid videos, 1/4 mile runs and rolling starts as I said 50 to 160 mph.
Lets test the metal on this one!!
BTW I also laugh at how in recent pass comments the IS-F is included in the same group or class of car as the E60 M5.
My E60 M5 will sweep the floor with the IS-F.
Cheers gentlemen.
Ranger
#20
08-24-2008, 05:59 PM
h20tt I viewed the video. Nice time but in my local tracks when you jump the light/start you get no time.
Now houstonT you've made your claims and that's fine but bring videos to the table. Post videos running an M3. Lets say run 50 mph to 160 mph.
I know guys in Dallas and surrounding area from the M5 Board who have new M3's. I will contact them to seek out and produce some head to head runs.
I still can not see an IS-F beating an M3. I continue to contend, I want to see valid videos, 1/4 mile runs and rolling starts as I said 50 to 160 mph.
Lets test the metal on this one!!
BTW I also laugh at how in recent pass comments the IS-F is included in the same group or class of car as the E60 M5.
My E60 M5 will sweep the floor with the IS-F.
Cheers gentlemen.
Ranger
Now houstonT you've made your claims and that's fine but bring videos to the table. Post videos running an M3. Lets say run 50 mph to 160 mph.
I know guys in Dallas and surrounding area from the M5 Board who have new M3's. I will contact them to seek out and produce some head to head runs.
I still can not see an IS-F beating an M3. I continue to contend, I want to see valid videos, 1/4 mile runs and rolling starts as I said 50 to 160 mph.
Lets test the metal on this one!!
BTW I also laugh at how in recent pass comments the IS-F is included in the same group or class of car as the E60 M5.
My E60 M5 will sweep the floor with the IS-F.
Cheers gentlemen.
Ranger
#21
08-24-2008, 06:12 PM
Ranger, are you serious? You've just lost ALL credibility... When you jump the light you get no time? HUH???? The IS-F did not jump the light, that was the IS350 that rolled through the staging beams and red lit, NOT the F.
As for the rest of your post, does it merit a response? Your stipulations are about as absurd as the ones I'm about to make. YOU produce an M3, get him to Houston, have him call me, and we will run. We can run from a dig, from a roll, we can stand on the brakes at 100 mph to see who stops better, and we can do whatever else we need to do to prove the F is faster. As for the M5, it's a $90k car that is NOT in the same class as the F....the F competes directly with the M3, RS4, etc...so comparing the two is pointless. For $30k, the M5 BETTER be MUCH faster...
Peter
As for the rest of your post, does it merit a response? Your stipulations are about as absurd as the ones I'm about to make. YOU produce an M3, get him to Houston, have him call me, and we will run. We can run from a dig, from a roll, we can stand on the brakes at 100 mph to see who stops better, and we can do whatever else we need to do to prove the F is faster. As for the M5, it's a $90k car that is NOT in the same class as the F....the F competes directly with the M3, RS4, etc...so comparing the two is pointless. For $30k, the M5 BETTER be MUCH faster...
Peter
#22
08-24-2008, 06:35 PM
Ranger, are you serious? You've just lost ALL credibility... When you jump the light you get no time? HUH???? The IS-F did not jump the light, that was the IS350 that rolled through the staging beams and red lit, NOT the F.
As for the rest of your post, does it merit a response? Your stipulations are about as absurd as the ones I'm about to make. YOU produce an M3, get him to Houston, have him call me, and we will run. We can run from a dig, from a roll, we can stand on the brakes at 100 mph to see who stops better, and we can do whatever else we need to do to prove the F is faster. As for the M5, it's a $90k car that is NOT in the same class as the F....the F competes directly with the M3, RS4, etc...so comparing the two is pointless. For $30k, the M5 BETTER be MUCH faster...
Peter
As for the rest of your post, does it merit a response? Your stipulations are about as absurd as the ones I'm about to make. YOU produce an M3, get him to Houston, have him call me, and we will run. We can run from a dig, from a roll, we can stand on the brakes at 100 mph to see who stops better, and we can do whatever else we need to do to prove the F is faster. As for the M5, it's a $90k car that is NOT in the same class as the F....the F competes directly with the M3, RS4, etc...so comparing the two is pointless. For $30k, the M5 BETTER be MUCH faster...
Peter
#23
08-24-2008, 06:55 PM
The IS-F is faster than the M3 in every situation I've ever seen where both cars are at the same place, same time, same conditions... I also do not subscribe to magazine racing, however, they do in fact pit the cars at the same place, same time, same conditions, so I look at the differences b/w the trap speed and ET to a lesser degree. The F is a flat out faster car, sorry...
I have raced 2 M3's in my F and I pulled BOTH of them without problem (albeit a SLOWWWW pull). There have been many documented races with the F pulling in each situation...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQSy1lLxE[/media]
I have raced 2 M3's in my F and I pulled BOTH of them without problem (albeit a SLOWWWW pull). There have been many documented races with the F pulling in each situation...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQSy1lLxE[/media]
Run a DCT M3 from a stop and see what happens. The IS-F has more torque and is easier to launch from a stop than a manual M3. Of course your video will show the IS-F as quicker, you would not be posting it if the M3 won.
Too bad you are all the way in Houston, I would love nothing more than to spank your ISF.
I will leave it at the cars are so quick that whomever gets the jump will win, like you did. But the DCT has the same power, closer gearing, less weight, and faster shifts. I pulled an SL55 pretty good the other day, I can't wait until I run into an IS-F.
Last edited by CURI0; 08-24-2008 at 07:01 PM.
#24
08-24-2008, 06:58 PM
HoustonT, the funny thing is that the M5 probably isnt faster, same torque 90hp more, much slower shift times and over 400lbs heavier. I would love to catch one on an open road to see whats up. By the way it was your mercury ISF that I saw first online that inspired me to get mercury, good luck with the two hot rides!
Last edited by CURI0; 08-24-2008 at 07:01 PM.
#25
08-24-2008, 07:03 PM
CURI0, my IS-F dyno'ed 358 rwhp and 338 rwtq. That is slightly more power than the M3, TONS TONS TONS more TQ and a more usable powerband. I wish you were in Houston, I would love nothing more than to spank your M3 with my IS-F.
h20tt - I would be surprised if the M5 didn't walk the IS-F, I have yet to run into one...
For what it's worth, I went into the TX section of M3post and for MONTHS offered my IS-F to run an M3 for fun, NOT ONE PERSON accepted.........by the way, the offer still stands.
Peter
h20tt - I would be surprised if the M5 didn't walk the IS-F, I have yet to run into one...
For what it's worth, I went into the TX section of M3post and for MONTHS offered my IS-F to run an M3 for fun, NOT ONE PERSON accepted.........by the way, the offer still stands.
Peter
#26
08-24-2008, 07:11 PM
CURI0, my IS-F dyno'ed 358 rwhp and 338 rwtq. That is slightly more power than the M3, TONS TONS TONS more TQ and a more usable powerband. I wish you were in Houston, I would love nothing more than to spank your M3 with my IS-F.
h20tt - I would be surprised if the M5 didn't walk the IS-F, I have yet to run into one...
For what it's worth, I went into the TX section of M3post and for MONTHS offered my IS-F to run an M3 for fun, NOT ONE PERSON accepted.........by the way, the offer still stands.
Peter
h20tt - I would be surprised if the M5 didn't walk the IS-F, I have yet to run into one...
For what it's worth, I went into the TX section of M3post and for MONTHS offered my IS-F to run an M3 for fun, NOT ONE PERSON accepted.........by the way, the offer still stands.
Peter
Slightly more useable power band? The car is geared to take advantage of my power band, do I shift from 1st into second at 2300 rpm?
You are posting in absolutes, have you ran a DCT M3? You are so sure you are faster than a DCT car? From the test I saw from the manual M3 sedan (which is heavier) vs. the IS-F the M3 was quicker. The gap only widens with an M3 coupe with DCT.
My offer stands to run an ISF, I just am not going to go trolling on an ISF forum about it.
#27
08-24-2008, 07:22 PM
1. That dyno graph is basically unreadable...is it SAE? STD? Uncorrected? DIN? If you'd like I can post my 358 rwhp graph in STD form and show you 365 rwhp STOCK on my IS-F?????
2. Yes, more usable powerband...how fast a car is (not quick) is simply a function of average usable hp, which in this case, even though you are 6k-8k (roughly) in the M3, your avg hp is still less than the F.
3. Like I said already, I've run 2 M3's myself...after beating both, the driver's of the M3 wouldn't even look over (actually one of them quickly turned off after getting beat). SOOOOOO, I have NO clue if they were 6-speed or auto...
4. Your offer? What offer? I am the one who made the offer on m3post in the south section many moons ago and no one bit...
5. Trolling? I've been a member on 6speed for about 3 years and am responding to a thread about the IS-F (and it's competition).
Next...
Peter
2. Yes, more usable powerband...how fast a car is (not quick) is simply a function of average usable hp, which in this case, even though you are 6k-8k (roughly) in the M3, your avg hp is still less than the F.
3. Like I said already, I've run 2 M3's myself...after beating both, the driver's of the M3 wouldn't even look over (actually one of them quickly turned off after getting beat). SOOOOOO, I have NO clue if they were 6-speed or auto...
4. Your offer? What offer? I am the one who made the offer on m3post in the south section many moons ago and no one bit...
5. Trolling? I've been a member on 6speed for about 3 years and am responding to a thread about the IS-F (and it's competition).
Next...
Peter
#28
08-24-2008, 08:50 PM
1. That dyno graph is basically unreadable...is it SAE? STD? Uncorrected? DIN? If you'd like I can post my 358 rwhp graph in STD form and show you 365 rwhp STOCK on my IS-F?????
2. Yes, more usable powerband...how fast a car is (not quick) is simply a function of average usable hp, which in this case, even though you are 6k-8k (roughly) in the M3, your avg hp is still less than the F.
3. Like I said already, I've run 2 M3's myself...after beating both, the driver's of the M3 wouldn't even look over (actually one of them quickly turned off after getting beat). SOOOOOO, I have NO clue if they were 6-speed or auto...
4. Your offer? What offer? I am the one who made the offer on m3post in the south section many moons ago and no one bit...
5. Trolling? I've been a member on 6speed for about 3 years and am responding to a thread about the IS-F (and it's competition).
Next...
Peter
2. Yes, more usable powerband...how fast a car is (not quick) is simply a function of average usable hp, which in this case, even though you are 6k-8k (roughly) in the M3, your avg hp is still less than the F.
3. Like I said already, I've run 2 M3's myself...after beating both, the driver's of the M3 wouldn't even look over (actually one of them quickly turned off after getting beat). SOOOOOO, I have NO clue if they were 6-speed or auto...
4. Your offer? What offer? I am the one who made the offer on m3post in the south section many moons ago and no one bit...
5. Trolling? I've been a member on 6speed for about 3 years and am responding to a thread about the IS-F (and it's competition).
Next...
Peter
I see, your dyno is to be trusted but when one comes along showing an M3 putting out more power it is suspect of doctored. I can see your point, the dyno must be off as it shows more power than the ISF which according you has more. Funny how a car with less torque is capable of that, huh?
It really does not matter how much torque you are putting out at lower revs as when going for max performance you are going to use the whole thing. Even with lower peak torque, power is torque multiplied by revs. The torque curve on the M3 being as flat as it is, the power is all up top. Pretty simple really, the ISF has a more "useable" powerband than an F430 using your logic.
I guess your powerband is supposedly more "useable" when you have 5 people in your car on the way to church up a hill. The M3 has plenty of torque for daily use.
There is no automatic M3 and you don't seem to understand the capabilities of DCT. With launch control, it will be ripping the ISF out of the hole, badly.
I was talking about trolling in relation to M3post, I thought you would be able to figure that out. How do you think I would be received on an ISF forum if I went about offering a race saying my car is faster?
Either way, the M3 is obviously the more complete drivers car and the best all around package in its segment. Toyota made a nice effort stuffing their V8 into the ISF and calling it a day. The M3 is on another level. Comparing the M3 to the ISF feels almost like the guys who compare the 911 to a vette.
Here is a better picture of that dyno, the other two cars are the CLK63 Black (red), and an E63 with tuning (green). Look at how the M3 stacks up to the much larger higher power V8. Looks to me like its the M3 that is the one with slightly more power:
Last edited by CURI0; 08-24-2008 at 09:03 PM.
#29
08-24-2008, 09:03 PM
Are you serious? See below in CAPS please...
NOW REALLY, NEXTTTTTTTTTTTT...
From a guy with a high power (assuming single turbo naturally) supra, I find it funny that you are talking about average HP. I don't have to take a guess as to what your dyno graph looks like.
THE USABLE RPM OF MY SUPRA UNDER WOT IS 6K RPM TO 8K RPM. THE AVG RWHP OF MY CAR IN THAT USABLE RANGE IS GREATER THAN 800 RWHP ON A 822 RWHP PEAK. I WOULD CALL THAT WORLD CLASS AVG RWHP.
It really does not matter how much torque you are putting out at lower revs as when going for max performance you are going to use the whole thing. Even with lower peak torque, power is torque multiplied by revs. The torque curve on the M3 being as flat as it is, the power is all up top. Pretty simple really, the ISF has a more "useable" powerband than an F430 using your logic.
EXACTLY, THAT IS WHY FROM A DEAD DIG I CAN WALK AN M3, OFF THE HIT FROM A ROLL I JUMP OUT ON AN M3, AND B/C THE IS-F MAKES MORE AVG HP IN THE USABLE RPM RANGE, I CAN WALK THE M3 FROM A ROLL...
I guess your powerband is supposedly more "useable" when you have 5 people in your car on the way to church up a hill. The M3 has plenty of torque for daily use.
NOT WORTH A RESPONSE.
There is no automatic M3 and you don't seem to understand the capabilities of DCT. With launch control, it will be ripping the ISF out of the hole, badly.
MY OFFER WAS MADE MONTHS AGO, STILL STANDS, AND WILL CONTINUE TO STAND. I WOULD LOVE TO RUN AN AUTOMATIC M3 FROM A DIG (AND A ROLL).
I was talking about trolling in relation to M3post, I thought you would be able to figure that out. How do you think I would be received on an ISF forum if I went about offering a race saying my car is faster?
******BAGGERY AT ITS FINEST! I HAD AN 02 M3 RECENTLY, AND SOLD AN 08 335I FOR THE IS-F. SO I WAS TROLLING? PLEASE DO EXPLAIN...
AS FOR YOU ON AN IS-F FORUM, ACTUALLY, I WOULD PERSONALLY BE THE ONE TO CALL YOU ON YOUR OFFER AND TRY TO ARRANGE A FUN RUN...
Either way, the M3 is obviously the more complete drivers car and the best all around package in its segment. Toyota made a nice effort stuffing their V8 into the ISF and calling it a day. The M3 is on another level. Comparing the M3 to the ISF feels almost like the guys who compare the 911 to a vette.
YEA, NOT SO MUCH...I WILL HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I WENT OUT TO BUY A DAILY AND CHOSE B/W THE RS4, C63, M3 AND IS-F...I COULD HAVE HAD ANY OF THE 4 AND CHOSE THE BETTER CAR...
ONE THING I DON'T RECALL IS HAVING THE SAME ELITIST ATTITUDE AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE. COMPARING A 911 TO A VETTE? HELL, I WOULD ARGUE THAT EITHER ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER BASED ON THE STIPULATIONS YOU SET FORTH. THEN AGAIN, YOU'D PROBABLY ARGUE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU SPENT ON YOUR 911.......SHOOT, I JUST REMEMBERED, I HAVE AN X5 IN MY GARAGE AS WE SPEAK, WHY HASN'T THIS ATTITUDE TRANSFERRED???
THE USABLE RPM OF MY SUPRA UNDER WOT IS 6K RPM TO 8K RPM. THE AVG RWHP OF MY CAR IN THAT USABLE RANGE IS GREATER THAN 800 RWHP ON A 822 RWHP PEAK. I WOULD CALL THAT WORLD CLASS AVG RWHP.
It really does not matter how much torque you are putting out at lower revs as when going for max performance you are going to use the whole thing. Even with lower peak torque, power is torque multiplied by revs. The torque curve on the M3 being as flat as it is, the power is all up top. Pretty simple really, the ISF has a more "useable" powerband than an F430 using your logic.
EXACTLY, THAT IS WHY FROM A DEAD DIG I CAN WALK AN M3, OFF THE HIT FROM A ROLL I JUMP OUT ON AN M3, AND B/C THE IS-F MAKES MORE AVG HP IN THE USABLE RPM RANGE, I CAN WALK THE M3 FROM A ROLL...
I guess your powerband is supposedly more "useable" when you have 5 people in your car on the way to church up a hill. The M3 has plenty of torque for daily use.
NOT WORTH A RESPONSE.
There is no automatic M3 and you don't seem to understand the capabilities of DCT. With launch control, it will be ripping the ISF out of the hole, badly.
MY OFFER WAS MADE MONTHS AGO, STILL STANDS, AND WILL CONTINUE TO STAND. I WOULD LOVE TO RUN AN AUTOMATIC M3 FROM A DIG (AND A ROLL).
I was talking about trolling in relation to M3post, I thought you would be able to figure that out. How do you think I would be received on an ISF forum if I went about offering a race saying my car is faster?
******BAGGERY AT ITS FINEST!
I HAD AN 02 M3 RECENTLY, AND SOLD AN 08 335I FOR THE IS-F. SO I WAS TROLLING? PLEASE DO EXPLAIN... AS FOR YOU ON AN IS-F FORUM, ACTUALLY, I WOULD PERSONALLY BE THE ONE TO CALL YOU ON YOUR OFFER AND TRY TO ARRANGE A FUN RUN...
Either way, the M3 is obviously the more complete drivers car and the best all around package in its segment. Toyota made a nice effort stuffing their V8 into the ISF and calling it a day. The M3 is on another level. Comparing the M3 to the ISF feels almost like the guys who compare the 911 to a vette.
YEA, NOT SO MUCH...I WILL HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I WENT OUT TO BUY A DAILY AND CHOSE B/W THE RS4, C63, M3 AND IS-F...I COULD HAVE HAD ANY OF THE 4 AND CHOSE THE BETTER CAR...
ONE THING I DON'T RECALL IS HAVING THE SAME ELITIST ATTITUDE AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE. COMPARING A 911 TO A VETTE? HELL, I WOULD ARGUE THAT EITHER ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER BASED ON THE STIPULATIONS YOU SET FORTH. THEN AGAIN, YOU'D PROBABLY ARGUE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU SPENT ON YOUR 911.......SHOOT, I JUST REMEMBERED, I HAVE AN X5 IN MY GARAGE AS WE SPEAK, WHY HASN'T THIS ATTITUDE TRANSFERRED???
#30
08-24-2008, 09:08 PM
The only way you are walking an M3 is if you catch it at 2k rpm and you hit the gas. If the M3 is in its powerband you aren't walking it because YOU ARENT MAKING MORE POWER. What don't you get? I suppose I can theoretically walk a single turbo supra if I am at 6000 rpm and he is at 2000 and spools at 4700.
As I said, feel free to arrange a run. I am sure you know ISF owners, find one in Orange County that feels up to the task. You are soooo confident the ISF is faster, I will be glad to get you back into reality. You did not choose the better car, the M3 is universally accepted as the better all around car. Perhaps what you meant to say is the ISF is better to you, subjective. The world's automotive press disagrees.