"Fantastic 4" ~ e92 M3 vs RS4 vs C63 vs IS-F
#1
08-20-2008, 10:02 AM
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"Fantastic 4" ~ e92 M3 vs RS4 vs C63 vs IS-F
I know each of these cars are different strokes for different folks and magazines have all compared them in terms of performance, etc but I was asking more in term of real life scenarios.
I posed this question on the Lexus board and everyone chimed in so I wanted to hear from the BMW crowd. I love my e46 m3 but life has now deemed a 4-seat automatic car. Looking at pre-owned IS-F right now but still not sure if that car is too small with only 4 seats vs. 5 on most sedans.
Anyways here's my 2 scenarios:
A) Driver needs a sedan, prefers auto, takes clients around town, fit 4-5 occasionally, park in questionable areas, good weather year round.
B) Driver needs a sedan, manual, takes clients around town, fit 4-5 occasionally, park in questionable areas, good weather year round.
For those of you who picked a e92 M3 over the C63 and IS-F / RS4, why?
Or if you have a IS-F perhaps you can chime in on why you got that car over the other 3?
I posed this question on the Lexus board and everyone chimed in so I wanted to hear from the BMW crowd. I love my e46 m3 but life has now deemed a 4-seat automatic car. Looking at pre-owned IS-F right now but still not sure if that car is too small with only 4 seats vs. 5 on most sedans.
Anyways here's my 2 scenarios:
A) Driver needs a sedan, prefers auto, takes clients around town, fit 4-5 occasionally, park in questionable areas, good weather year round.
B) Driver needs a sedan, manual, takes clients around town, fit 4-5 occasionally, park in questionable areas, good weather year round.
For those of you who picked a e92 M3 over the C63 and IS-F / RS4, why?
Or if you have a IS-F perhaps you can chime in on why you got that car over the other 3?
#3
08-20-2008, 08:57 PM
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#4
08-20-2008, 09:56 PM
^ I'd agree with them, although my mpg isn't much better in the RS4 than my friend with an M5, though he does have some Dinan on it and a lead foot. Don't kid yourself, none of these cars you've considered are even "good" on mpg. I mean, I'm in the oil business and the RS4 has a bit worse than my E46 M3. The new M3, I don't assume gets much better and the C63 is a joke if you drive it hard. Don't know about the ISF.
So, E60 M5 or...
So, E60 M5 or...
#5
08-21-2008, 07:41 AM
I had the option of buying anyone of those 4 sedans and chose the IS-F. My reasoning as follows:
1. Toyota quality (wins over all).
2. Interior (much better than C63, nicer than M3, on par with RS4)
3. Great Mark Levinson stereo
4. Does everything well
5. Great Brembo 6-piston brakes
6. Stiff/solid suspension
7. Great HP/TQ (faster/quicker than the M3 and RS4)
8. Split personality (I use this car as my daily and I LOVE the tame nature of Lexus vehicles. This car is an IS250 below 3k rpm and when on part throttle, but when you floor her, she becomes a completely different animal - Jekyl/Hyde)
9. 8-speed transmission that shifts in 0.1 seconds
10. Lexus service (every aspect of Lexus service trumps all others)
Just my 0.02
Peter
1. Toyota quality (wins over all).
2. Interior (much better than C63, nicer than M3, on par with RS4)
3. Great Mark Levinson stereo
4. Does everything well
5. Great Brembo 6-piston brakes
6. Stiff/solid suspension
7. Great HP/TQ (faster/quicker than the M3 and RS4)
8. Split personality (I use this car as my daily and I LOVE the tame nature of Lexus vehicles. This car is an IS250 below 3k rpm and when on part throttle, but when you floor her, she becomes a completely different animal - Jekyl/Hyde)
9. 8-speed transmission that shifts in 0.1 seconds
10. Lexus service (every aspect of Lexus service trumps all others)
Just my 0.02
Peter
#6
08-21-2008, 09:52 AM
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#9
08-21-2008, 02:19 PM
As they say "to each his own", but I bought my ISF 3 months ago and the chubby design has gotten me more compliments than my porsche turbo got as well as my MB cls55. As far as the other 3 cars go M3 is nice but it still has crappy brakes the rs4 looks great but it is getting dated and the c63 is awesome but differs little from the regular c's as far as looks go. All 4 are great cars but the ISF fit my bill, and this is from a guy that thinks lexus' are for retirees and soccer moms.
#10
08-21-2008, 03:19 PM
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I had the option of buying anyone of those 4 sedans and chose the IS-F. My reasoning as follows:
1. Toyota quality (wins over all).
2. Interior (much better than C63, nicer than M3, on par with RS4)
3. Great Mark Levinson stereo
4. Does everything well
5. Great Brembo 6-piston brakes
6. Stiff/solid suspension
7. Great HP/TQ (faster/quicker than the M3 and RS4)
8. Split personality (I use this car as my daily and I LOVE the tame nature of Lexus vehicles. This car is an IS250 below 3k rpm and when on part throttle, but when you floor her, she becomes a completely different animal - Jekyl/Hyde)
9. 8-speed transmission that shifts in 0.1 seconds
10. Lexus service (every aspect of Lexus service trumps all others)
1. Toyota quality (wins over all).
2. Interior (much better than C63, nicer than M3, on par with RS4)
3. Great Mark Levinson stereo
4. Does everything well
5. Great Brembo 6-piston brakes
6. Stiff/solid suspension
7. Great HP/TQ (faster/quicker than the M3 and RS4)
8. Split personality (I use this car as my daily and I LOVE the tame nature of Lexus vehicles. This car is an IS250 below 3k rpm and when on part throttle, but when you floor her, she becomes a completely different animal - Jekyl/Hyde)
9. 8-speed transmission that shifts in 0.1 seconds
10. Lexus service (every aspect of Lexus service trumps all others)
1. Haven't had any problems with mine, but german and quality don't always go hand in hand
2. Interior is also getting a touch dated, but still fit and finish better than almost everything.
3. Bose (Blows) But you don't listen to stereo too much in this car anyway, it has quite a seductive growl.
4. Does even more well than all the others (i.e... Snow)
5. Who needs 6 pistons, when you have 8 ;-)
6. DRC has its + and -, very day to day competent, but does suffer on the track a little. not nearly as harsh as the IS-F
7. Plenty fast, keeps up with the m3, is faster than the IS-F (the 8250 redline is where it will beat the IS-F, it just is a touch faster, at least my broken in one is) but can't really compete with the C63, at least the RS4 has no problem staying in a straight line.
8. The true daily driver super sedan...all weather, all season, track day to snow day.
9. Nothing like rowing your own gears, but won't always be as fast as someone else just pushing one pedal.
10. Can't compete here, Lexus blows everyone away, know from experience.
11. You aren't going to get 5 in any of these cars...the RS4 is about the biggest of the bunch, and adults are pretty cramped in the back seat at just 4.
Jason
#11
08-21-2008, 09:26 PM
SEE BELOW IN CAPS AND LETS ADD THE FACT THAT LEXUS QUALITY (AS RANKED BY JD POWER AND ASSOCIATES) SCORED NUMBER 1 IN THE WORLD AMONGST ALL CAR MANUFACTURERS FOR THE 14TH YEAR IN A ROW...
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...df/2008115.pdf
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...df/2008115.pdf
From the RS4 side....
1. Haven't had any problems with mine, but german and quality don't always go hand in hand I HAVE OWNED 2 AUDI'S IN THE LAST 4 YEARS (TT FOR THE WIFE AND AN A4 FOR THE WIFE) AND WILL NEVER OWN ANOTHER, QUALITYAND RELIABILITY SUCKED.
2. Interior is also getting a touch dated, but still fit and finish better than almost everything. AGREED, IT IS GETTING DATED, BUT FIT AND FINISH IS SOLID AND HAS THAT GERMAN RUGEDNESS...
3. Bose (Blows) But you don't listen to stereo too much in this car anyway, it has quite a seductive growl. LOVE MY ML STEREO.
4. Does even more well than all the others (i.e... Snow) I THINK ABOUT THE ONLY THING IT DOES BETTER IS SNOW, IT'S THE SLOWEST OF THE BUNCH, HAS BRAKES ON PAR AND THE HEAVY HEAVY AWD HAMPERS THE FEEL OF THE CAR IN AGGRESIVE DRIVING (YES I DROVE ONE).
5. Who needs 6 pistons, when you have 8 ;-) SORRY, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT ONLY...I HAVE BREMBO 6-PISTON UP FRONT AND BREMBO 2 PISTON IN REAR...TOTAL OF 8 TOO!
NO BUT IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, DOES THE RS4 HAVE 8 PISTON CALIPERS UP FRONT?????
6. DRC has its + and -, very day to day competent, but does suffer on the track a little. not nearly as harsh as the IS-F. I LOVE THE FIRM RIDE OF THE IS-F, FEELS VERY CONNECTED TO THE RD.
7. Plenty fast, keeps up with the m3, is faster than the IS-F (the 8250 redline is where it will beat the IS-F, it just is a touch faster, at least my broken in one is) but can't really compete with the C63, at least the RS4 has no problem staying in a straight line. IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS THE RS4 AS FAST AS THE IS-F...THE IS-F CONSISTENTLY TRAPS 112-114 IN ALL RAG TESTS AND IN SAME DAY COMPARO'S THE RS4 IS IN THE 102 (MT ISSUE) TO 110 RANGE. IT'S JUST A SLIGHTLY SLOWER CAR...
8. The true daily driver super sedan...all weather, all season, track day to snow day. GOOD THING I LIVE IN HOUSTON, NO SNOW!
9. Nothing like rowing your own gears, but won't always be as fast as someone else just pushing one pedal. I HAVE A 822 REAR WHEEL HP SUPRA FOR THAT... I DAILY THE CAR IN HOUSTON, TX TRAFFIC, THE LAST THING I WANT IS TO ROW THROUGH THE GEARS EVERY DAY...
10. Can't compete here, Lexus blows everyone away, know from experience. AGREED
11. You aren't going to get 5 in any of these cars...the RS4 is about the biggest of the bunch, and adults are pretty cramped in the back seat at just 4. YUP, 4 IS IT...
Jason
1. Haven't had any problems with mine, but german and quality don't always go hand in hand I HAVE OWNED 2 AUDI'S IN THE LAST 4 YEARS (TT FOR THE WIFE AND AN A4 FOR THE WIFE) AND WILL NEVER OWN ANOTHER, QUALITYAND RELIABILITY SUCKED.
2. Interior is also getting a touch dated, but still fit and finish better than almost everything. AGREED, IT IS GETTING DATED, BUT FIT AND FINISH IS SOLID AND HAS THAT GERMAN RUGEDNESS...
3. Bose (Blows) But you don't listen to stereo too much in this car anyway, it has quite a seductive growl. LOVE MY ML STEREO.
4. Does even more well than all the others (i.e... Snow) I THINK ABOUT THE ONLY THING IT DOES BETTER IS SNOW, IT'S THE SLOWEST OF THE BUNCH, HAS BRAKES ON PAR AND THE HEAVY HEAVY AWD HAMPERS THE FEEL OF THE CAR IN AGGRESIVE DRIVING (YES I DROVE ONE).
5. Who needs 6 pistons, when you have 8 ;-) SORRY, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT ONLY...I HAVE BREMBO 6-PISTON UP FRONT AND BREMBO 2 PISTON IN REAR...TOTAL OF 8 TOO!
NO BUT IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, DOES THE RS4 HAVE 8 PISTON CALIPERS UP FRONT?????6. DRC has its + and -, very day to day competent, but does suffer on the track a little. not nearly as harsh as the IS-F. I LOVE THE FIRM RIDE OF THE IS-F, FEELS VERY CONNECTED TO THE RD.
7. Plenty fast, keeps up with the m3, is faster than the IS-F (the 8250 redline is where it will beat the IS-F, it just is a touch faster, at least my broken in one is) but can't really compete with the C63, at least the RS4 has no problem staying in a straight line. IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS THE RS4 AS FAST AS THE IS-F...THE IS-F CONSISTENTLY TRAPS 112-114 IN ALL RAG TESTS AND IN SAME DAY COMPARO'S THE RS4 IS IN THE 102 (MT ISSUE) TO 110 RANGE. IT'S JUST A SLIGHTLY SLOWER CAR...
8. The true daily driver super sedan...all weather, all season, track day to snow day. GOOD THING I LIVE IN HOUSTON, NO SNOW!
9. Nothing like rowing your own gears, but won't always be as fast as someone else just pushing one pedal. I HAVE A 822 REAR WHEEL HP SUPRA FOR THAT... I DAILY THE CAR IN HOUSTON, TX TRAFFIC, THE LAST THING I WANT IS TO ROW THROUGH THE GEARS EVERY DAY...
10. Can't compete here, Lexus blows everyone away, know from experience. AGREED
11. You aren't going to get 5 in any of these cars...the RS4 is about the biggest of the bunch, and adults are pretty cramped in the back seat at just 4. YUP, 4 IS IT...
Jason
#13
08-22-2008, 10:54 AM
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Only have more comments on a few points.
1. I'm well aware that with german cars it is hit or miss, I won't disagree with that..I've been lucky with my E39 M5 and RS4 though, where my porsche was a lemon from the factory, so you just never know. Where it's more hit than miss with the japanese brands.
4. Don't disagree that is why I have the Stasis Motorsport suspension, it is the best handling suspension I've ever driven with bar none. It does what the IS-F does and multiplies it, all without adding any harshness, ask any RS4 owner that has it (there are quite a few) it is just a perfect setup.
5. Yeah, 8 piston front from the Gallardo parts bin.
7. Not what I have experienced playing around with one on the street (shame, shame on me). It could be my broken in car vs. his new engine, but I would always pull just slightly on him at about any speed into the silly numbers where we seemed very even, to him taking back the advantage.
8 & 9. If I lived in Houston I probably wouldn't have thought about a RS4 either, but since I have, it is really one of the most complete cars I've owned. And even in traffic I just don't mind driving stick, never have.
1. I'm well aware that with german cars it is hit or miss, I won't disagree with that..I've been lucky with my E39 M5 and RS4 though, where my porsche was a lemon from the factory, so you just never know. Where it's more hit than miss with the japanese brands.
4. Don't disagree that is why I have the Stasis Motorsport suspension, it is the best handling suspension I've ever driven with bar none. It does what the IS-F does and multiplies it, all without adding any harshness, ask any RS4 owner that has it (there are quite a few) it is just a perfect setup.
5. Yeah, 8 piston front from the Gallardo parts bin.
7. Not what I have experienced playing around with one on the street (shame, shame on me). It could be my broken in car vs. his new engine, but I would always pull just slightly on him at about any speed into the silly numbers where we seemed very even, to him taking back the advantage.
8 & 9. If I lived in Houston I probably wouldn't have thought about a RS4 either, but since I have, it is really one of the most complete cars I've owned. And even in traffic I just don't mind driving stick, never have.
#14
08-22-2008, 01:39 PM
Yup, no problem.......thanks for the informative first hand post. I too have run (2) RS4's and to be honest, it hasn't even been close. From first hand experience and from EVERY SINGLE magazine I've ever read (Motor Trend, Road and Track, Car and Driver, etc...) the IS-F is simply a faster car. Given same conditions (same day same track) the IS-F has always been faster...
Take care.
Peter
Take care.
Peter
#15
08-22-2008, 02:33 PM
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IS-F is a nice looking car, I don't see why people think it looks hideous. In terms of looks I find the C63 AMG to be my favorite, more for its aggressive design. I kinda like the new CTS-Vs as well. I'd probably pick the C63 and CTS-V over the others, but thats only because I love their raw power.