I've been reading up on this car as much as I can find and very little pictures or info released so far.....

Been thinking about picking up this car for my next family sedan as the kids grow bigger as the IS-F just isn't as big as I had hoped


Love to hear everyone's thoughts on this car vs the E63 AMG (my other choice)


thanks
rick

 

well, e63 wont have turbo lag(if there is any) with somewhat limited aftermarket, but the new tt v8 should be a beast, and if its anything like the 335i, aftermarket shoud provide enough to satisfy the mod disease. If your not into that, I would just wait and see, cant really compare them looks wise until youve seen the finished product. Both im sure are fast and fun. I would pick the new M5.

 

new M5 will end all comparisons in the midsize super saloon game.

 

sad to see the V10 go with it's 8000+ redline

V8 with turbos = boring

Fast, yes - but also boring - not to mention that first 500 RPM of lag is going to be rough...

 

To me, a V-10 with no torque = boring

This is the first BMW I've been interested in a very long time. I'm looking forward to its release. I only wish they'd put this motor in the M3.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

If it is anything like the V8 TT in my 750i then it will not be boring at all. My 750i has no lag what so ever.

 

The term "lag" is misnomer. You are either in right operating range of rpm or you aren't. If you are, lag essentially does not exist. If you aren't, you need to get into the right gear in order to get into the right operating range so the turbo will spool.

It's like a F1 car that revs to 17k rpm. If you aren't in the right gear, and you try going WOT at 4k rpm, it won't make much power at all. It will be "laggy". Yet, it's a N/A car.

Just like a turbo car, it needs to be in right rpm operating range in order to take advantage of it's full power.

 

I can't imagine it sounding as nice.

 

I've owned three 996TT's... An 03', an 03' X50 and an 05 cab

I was never enamored by any of them - they were fast, yet incredibly boring cars... While my cab was in for service i was given a Cayman S as a loner, i honestly was saddened by having to give the Cayman back and drive my turbo back home - The Cayman was such a more entertaining car

The 996TT had impressed me by its stats, while in practice i was bored...

I went through three TT's looking for a car to suit my preferences... Hence, my Ferrari - a V8, 8500 redline, not a ton of torque, very fast, and wildly entertaining in every respect - My e46 M3 comes to mind as well, immensely fun car, yet low on torque - and wouldn't you know it, every V10 M5 i've driven also slots into the description above

BMW M cars were always high revving, naturally aspirated cars, low on torque, yet incredibly fun cars - it's a sad departure into the new M, and the cars, (and lag) will be boring

Obviously, you're a huge advocate of turbo cars, i prefer high revving, naturally aspirated cars - And that's basically, that

 

I really don't know how you can say turbo lag is a misnomer

When launching a turbo car, with no revs - there is absolutely no power that first half second, this is applicable to any turbocharged car... end of discussion

Same scenario, NA car, power from the launch and increasing, you don't have to be in the "right RPM operating range," to acquire the power

There is no sudden surge of power, everything is very linear - Taking it one step further, electric cars produce all their torque at/from 0 RPM...

My Cooper S is turbocharged, thus i'm not commenting outside the box, turbo lag is very real and i experience it everyday

It's not a misnomer, it's an excuse

 

Like I said, it's subjective. Most N/A cars to me, are boring.

And unless it's a 10-second car that traps over 135 mph, I have a hard time considering it "very fast". The good thing is we all have choices.

 

No, it's a misnomer. Unfortunately you are confusing the terms "lag" and "boost threshold".
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...r/faqs.html#t3

# What is Turbo Lag?
Turbo lag is the time delay of boost response after the throttle is opened when operating above the boost threshold engine speed. Turbo lag is determined by many factors, including turbo size relative to engine size, the state of tuning of the engine, the inertia of the turbo's rotating group, turbine efficiency, intake plumbing losses, exhaust backpressure, etc.

# What is Boost Threshold?
Boost threshold is the engine speed (AKA 'RPM') at which there is sufficient exhaust gas flow to generate positive manifold pressure, or boost.

These definitions don't take into account the problem with drivers who don't know how to properly drive a turbo-charged vehicle (i.e., going WOT in 4th gear at only 20 mph and 1200 rpm and expecting the car to achieve full boost). That's not lag or boost threshold, that's simply not being in the right gear gear (or the correct RPM operating range or boost threshold), as I mentioned earlier.

It's up the driver to ensure he or she is always in the correct boost threshold. Only then, is talk of "lag" appropriate.

This applies somewhat to a N/A cars as well, the only difference being that there's no boost. Try stomping the throttle in an M-car in the wrong gear and tell me how fast it is. High-revving, low torque motors like those in M cars and 360 Modenas need to be driven in the upper-rpm range in order to take advantage of their maximum power...just like a lot of turbo-charged cars do. The difference is that the turbo-charged motors give you a LOT more power and torque per liter, and earlier on (at 3-4k instead of 7k or 8k, for example).

The fastest street cars on planet earth are all turbocharged, "lag" or "boost threshold" notwithstanding; TT Vipers, ST Supras, TT Gallardos, TT Porsches, TT Ford GTs, TT Corvettes. Heck, even the fastest BMWs (HPF) and Ferraris (UGR) are all running turbo setups.

You can't argue with results, and big power cars are anything but "boring".

 

i have owned an e39 m5 for a long time now, and never warmed up to the e60 at all. yes it had that screamer of a v10, but it also suffered from a lack of low end grunt, was ugly inside and out (imo), had really horrible fuel consumption plus a small tank, and was overpriced to boot. the f10 m5 to me looks promising--more attractive, should be fast but with better low end, better interior, hopefully not overpriced (but likely) and better fuel consumption. i don't mind going to a boosted engine--it is a reflection of the current state of things and isn't a horrible compromise. my big issue with the f10 is size--it is even bigger than the e60 which was bigger than the e39. these are no longer mid-size cars, they are almost 7 series in length with the accompanied weight that comes with length and width. while i may take a look at the new m5, i'm probably more interested in something like the audi s4 or possibly the m3 for what i will need going forward.

 

FWIW, there is no discernible lag with the 4.4TT in my X5M.

At 1.5 bar, the X5/6 M engine develops 500 ft lbs @ 1500 rpms. Couple that with launch control that allows brake boosting (Launch Control) to +/- 2600 and you have a launch that is significantly stronger than the V10 powered M models.

Should prove very entertaining in the new M5/M6 - especially if they crank up the boost past 21psi. (even if it doesn't sound as cool as the 8250 rpm V10).

It would be nice to have a high revving V8/V10 in the M cars, but those engines aren't tenable for a number of different reasons.

That said, I think it's important to differentiate between legacy TT and/or single turbo systems that have exhibited some of the aforementioned 'turbo-lag' vs modern (eg twin scroll) systems.

This is an informative article on turbos:
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-09...ign/index.html