honestly, whether its true or not or happened or not, i couldnt care less...if i wanted a twin turbo car, id stick with a 996TT late

 

I always liked M3, but the c63 is very tempting as well, I read a m3 review on car and driver last week, the review was okay, nothing surprising.

 

Next year will be time for a replacement for my IS350. I am cross shopping the M3, IS-F, 335 (I would mod it), RS4 and C63AMG. Not looking for a track car, already have one of those.

Here are my highly subjective personal ratings (out of 10 possible points)with all the information I have at this point:

M3
Exterior: 7
Interior: 5 (this was the main reason I didn't choose a 330 over the IS350, that and 50hp...)
Shifter: 3 (it looks like they carried over the $hitty linkage from earlier models)
Power: 8
Mods needed for me: Short shifter definitely (+4 on shifter), 19 or 20" wheels, lowering (+1), intake/exhaust (maybe if sound or power improvement is dramatic)

IS-F
Exterior: 6 (they made it look worse than an IS350)
Interior: 8 (would be a 10 if it had more room)
Shifter: 5 (only comes with 8spd paddle shifter, i'll get to drive one at SEMA this year so until then I'll leave it a 5, supposed to be the 2nd fastest shifter behind Ferrari?)
Power: 8 (may have a few more hp than the M3 but does it really matter if it has 435hp or 415hp?)
Mods: 19" Wheels (+2), intake/exhaust (maybe if sound or power improvement is dramatic)

RS-4
Exterior: 7 (higher if there was no such thing as an A4 that looked similar)
Interior: 8
Shifter: 9 (very, very nice stock unit)
Power: 8 (AWD helps from the launch but hurts with weight and drag on top end)
Mods: Lowering, exhaust

335
Exterior: 7 (am I the only one who prefers the subtle look of twin exhaust pipes to the 4 pipes on the M3?)
Interior: 5
Shifter: 3 (a solid 8 after mods)
Power: 4 (probably a 9/10 after mods)
Mods: Springs, wheels (+1), reflash, dp's, exhaust (and whatever else it takes to get to the mid/low 12 sec level). May do the 335xi for better acceleration.

C63
Exterior: 8 (looks pretty mean IMO)
Interior: 8 (haven't seen it in person)
Shifter: 4 (i haven't found an AMG auto i really liked, this could be dramatically higher but this is based on past experience)
Power: 9
Mods: intake/exhaust (maybe if sound or power improvement is dramatic); the AMG wheels are pretty nice so I wouldn't change them

Stock ratings
1. RS4 (32/40)
2. C63 (28/40) - lack of MT hurts
3. IS-F (27/40) - lack of MT and exterior looks
4. M3 (23/40) - shifter, interior and lack luster exterior
5. 335 (19/40) - shifter, interior and low hp stock

Modded ratings (my ratings)
1. RS4 (32/40) - not too much to improve on stock, most $$$ though.
2. C63 (30-32/40) - depends on how the tranny feels
3. IS-F (29-32/40) - depends on how the tranny feels
4. M3 (28/40) - interior
5. 335 (31/40)

So basically as far as I'm concerned, I will need to drive each one and see how it feels best to me. On paper, they are too close to call.

Regarding the previous comment about the C63 interior being poor, how can you call this poor?


It's interesting to read the 335 fans vs the M3 fans. Keep it going guys!

 

no offense, but that interior puts every current model bmw to shame, complete and utter shame!

 

I guess you haven't sat in one and touched the surfaces it feels like a mid 90's pontiac....NO THANKS

 

haha its not quite that bad but its bad

 

regarding that list, to each his own but. . .for me, and most real enthusiasts out there who enjoy driving, an automatic instantly disqualifies something from even being mentioned in the same breath as something that's manual.

don't get me wrong, i'm sure the C63 and IS-F are going to be a REALLY nice cars, but for me it's clear they are targeting a different market than the M3 and RS4 are in. mercedes has said on various ocassions when asked why they do not offer a manual option for their AMG cars, that their clientele generally would pick an auto anyway. it's just a shame that amg cant develop an SMG or DSG type of gearbox as an option for some of their cars. . .but until then i truly feel that the die hard enthusiast is going to look elsewhere for their fix.

as for the IS-F, we'll see if a 6 speed is offered in later models. . .but again, for now, i really don't think it's going to be a real M3 competitor with an automatic transmission; they're again appealing to 2 different customers.

could you imagine if the M3 and M5 only came in automatic? imagine what an abomination that would be to the brand. this is why i say lexus and mercedes aren't competing DIRECTLY with the likes of BMW(m3) and audi(s/rs). they can get away with selling auto-only cars, and BMW/audi would NEVER be able to do that; their enthusiast-based clientele is simply too deep.

 

you do know that bmw didnt intend on putting a 6mt in the m5 or m6 and when people complained they did, but just used the same unit (carried over) from the e39 m5. it wasnt specifically made for the m5 and m6, just tossed on those cars and it apparantly terrible.

 

MB has put nothing but junk out in the past five years. Look at their ratings for godsake. They are abysmal.

And that interior?...............that is no better than you would find in your run of the mill Honda. I know. My wife had a C class two years ago. Not good.

 

um yea. . .actually the V10 & the SMG III gearbox were designed together; the 7 speed was specifically designed for THAT powertrain.

BMW put the 6 speeds in those cars to satisfy some PO'd american customers. now they have a bunch sitting around that they can't sell at dealers everywhere; last time BMW does the american buyers a favor like that, haha.

not sure, but are you insinuating that the SMG isn't a manual transmission? tell me you think there is no difference between a shiftable automatic like in the lexus and benz, and SMG. i'd rather have SMG over an automatic any day of the year.

 

yeh after about 97 Mercedes went to hell... and still havent recovered even the s and cls, clk etc. arent really that nice and mbz is just kind of half assed and slapped together

 

you just said the exact same thing i did. read my post again...its called reading com-pre-hension. use it!


if you read carefully, youll see i said the m5 and m6 werent supposed to have a 6mt, but people complained, so they took the unit from the e39 m5 and put it into both of those cars. it was designed specifically for them, like the smg was.

 

whoa now partner, need to calm down, i know the internet is serious business to you. . .you have to understand it's tough for people to comprehend you quoting me, then posting something completely irrelevant to the quote.

i guess you couldn't sense the sarcasm in my previous post, but you recognized i said the exact same things as your post did. . .but you still didn't answer my rhetorical question.

as to your reading comprehension: did you see in post 98 where i was talking about how BMW's SMG and audi's DSG will still pretty much still appeal to the enthusiast more than an automatic? obviously you skipped over that one huh, being that you felt the need to quote me and tell me they originally put SMG in the M5 and M6, and they later got a "6 speed". so uh. . .what exactly WAS your point in that post? you quoted my post, then tried to make it like i said that SMG cars aren't up to snuff for enthusiasts too.

 

i agree the dsg and smg are more sporty than a full automatic transmission, but the point i was trying to originally make was that bmw intended on only making hte m5 and m6 with smg 3 and not manual, they only did make 6mt to appease the 6mt people who hated the smg in the m3. its sucks tho from all the reviews and most people say it too. smg is good for big cars like the m5 and m6, but i wouldnt ever want it in my m3 or a small sporty car. dsg is even more advanced and i cant wait to see what porsche does with their system, considering they were the first ones to create it in the 80s.

 

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