The New M3 is in TROUBLE
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From: the Real OC
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while the 335 is a great engine...theyre two completely different engines...one a twin turbo I6...the other is a race bred motor with an 8400 rpm redline and a flat tq curve.
status-are you aware of all the overheating issues the 335s have been having-one guy at the last bimmer meet i was at said bmw is giving hima brand new 335i coupe because the one he has now is totally f*cked.
status-are you aware of all the overheating issues the 335s have been having-one guy at the last bimmer meet i was at said bmw is giving hima brand new 335i coupe because the one he has now is totally f*cked.
yeh i am aware my press car overheated but powerplant still has better potential and thats a really easy fix
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no no im serious... there is so much you can do with a NA car w/o spending quite a bit of do... you can do more with a turbo for less. which = more power pretty simple dude
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while a 335 has more potential to be faster in a straight line, its doenst have the potential to be the type of car on the track that the m3 is. it is a heavy pig of a car, weighing about 200-300 lbs more than a stock m3, it has a softer suspension, much much more understeer and body roll doesnt have steering that is as communicative as the e46 m3. so if youre only after bragging rights about hp, then sure 335 it up. but if youre after a car that everyone in the car world has respect for, and a street car that doubles as a weekend track star, the m3 is the answer.
one thing youre forgetting is that now i can take my m3 to AA in florida and for 10K i can have a low 12 second car that will eat up and modded 335 unless it has bigger turbos.
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don't get me wrong. . .the 335i's powerplant is really something special, everyone knew if BMW did an f/i powerplant, it would be superior to pretty much any other f/i powerplant on the market, and it just might be.
i still have to give the edge for the engineering it takes to squeeze the power out of an NA motor, which BMW has been noted for for some time now.
the M3 motor makes more HP per liter than the 335, WITH OUT 2 turbos helping. . . to me at least, that is the better motor IN STOCK FORM
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the modding ability of a motor does not at ALL constitute it being a better motor.
don't get me wrong. . .the 335i's powerplant is really something special, everyone knew if BMW did an f/i powerplant, it would be superior to pretty much any other f/i powerplant on the market, and it just might be.
i still have to give the edge for the engineering it takes to squeeze the power out of an NA motor, which BMW has been noted for for some time now.
the M3 motor makes more HP per liter than the 335, WITH OUT 2 turbos helping. . . to me at least, that is the better motor IN STOCK FORM
don't get me wrong. . .the 335i's powerplant is really something special, everyone knew if BMW did an f/i powerplant, it would be superior to pretty much any other f/i powerplant on the market, and it just might be.
i still have to give the edge for the engineering it takes to squeeze the power out of an NA motor, which BMW has been noted for for some time now.
the M3 motor makes more HP per liter than the 335, WITH OUT 2 turbos helping. . . to me at least, that is the better motor IN STOCK FORM
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At the end of the day.......what are you going to do with the car? Are you going to track it 4-5 times a year? How deep are your pockets to track and mod and track and mod further? ..........or do you want a car that is a blast to do some spirited back country road driving plus feel comfortable going out on a client call WITH YOUR CLIENT IN THE CAR WITH YOU?
If you want the former as opposed to the latter....get the M3 (be prepared to drop $$$$ though because you won't be satisfied out of the box with it for the track). Are the handling characteristics in stock form better in the M? Yes.....Can a 335 be modded for realively cheap $$$$ to handle just as well? yes. Can the powerplant in the M be modded for relatively cheap $$$$? Nope.....can a 335's power be modded for cheap $$$$? Yep.
After all is said and done, get what YOU like and not what some magazine says. I would venture to say that 95% of the people commenting in this thread (including me for the most part)don't even track their car but they are so concerned about lap times
and magazine bragging BS.
They are both terrific cars. I still think the E46 looks damn good but it is getting a bit dated looking IMO.
One other thing Greg - remember the issues that BMW had with the first model year E46 M(ending up offering a 100k mile powertrain warranty). I don't recall exactly but wasn't it a heat issue?
Oh yeah, one more thing.....................I'd be happy with either one
If you want the former as opposed to the latter....get the M3 (be prepared to drop $$$$ though because you won't be satisfied out of the box with it for the track). Are the handling characteristics in stock form better in the M? Yes.....Can a 335 be modded for realively cheap $$$$ to handle just as well? yes. Can the powerplant in the M be modded for relatively cheap $$$$? Nope.....can a 335's power be modded for cheap $$$$? Yep.
After all is said and done, get what YOU like and not what some magazine says. I would venture to say that 95% of the people commenting in this thread (including me for the most part)don't even track their car but they are so concerned about lap times
and magazine bragging BS.They are both terrific cars. I still think the E46 looks damn good but it is getting a bit dated looking IMO.
One other thing Greg - remember the issues that BMW had with the first model year E46 M(ending up offering a 100k mile powertrain warranty). I don't recall exactly but wasn't it a heat issue?
Oh yeah, one more thing.....................I'd be happy with either one
Last edited by amerlemans; Sep 9, 2007 at 10:19 AM.
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At the end of the day.......what are you going to do with the car? Are you going to track it 4-5 times a year? How deep are your pockets to track and mod and track and mod further? ..........or do you want a car that is a blast to do some spirited back country road driving plus feel comfortable going out on a client call WITH YOUR CLIENT IN THE CAR WITH YOU?
If you want the former as opposed to the latter....get the M3 (be prepared to drop $$$$ though because you won't be satisfied out of the box with it for the track). Are the handling characteristics in stock form better in the M? Yes.....Can a 335 be modded for realively cheap $$$$ to handle just as well? yes. Can the powerplant in the M be modded for relatively cheap $$$$? Nope.....can a 335's power be modded for cheap $$$$? Yep.
After all is said and done, get what YOU like and not what some magazine says. I would venture to say that 95% of the people commenting in this thread (including me for the most part)don't even track their car but they are so concerned about lap times and magazine bragging BS.
They are both terrific cars. I still think the E46 looks damn good but it is getting a bit dated looking IMO.
One other thing Greg - remember the issues that BMW had with the first model year E46 M(ending up offering a 100k mile powertrain warranty). I don't recall exactly but wasn't it a heat issue?
Oh yeah, one more thing.....................I'd be happy with either one
If you want the former as opposed to the latter....get the M3 (be prepared to drop $$$$ though because you won't be satisfied out of the box with it for the track). Are the handling characteristics in stock form better in the M? Yes.....Can a 335 be modded for realively cheap $$$$ to handle just as well? yes. Can the powerplant in the M be modded for relatively cheap $$$$? Nope.....can a 335's power be modded for cheap $$$$? Yep.
After all is said and done, get what YOU like and not what some magazine says. I would venture to say that 95% of the people commenting in this thread (including me for the most part)don't even track their car but they are so concerned about lap times
and magazine bragging BS.They are both terrific cars. I still think the E46 looks damn good but it is getting a bit dated looking IMO.
One other thing Greg - remember the issues that BMW had with the first model year E46 M(ending up offering a 100k mile powertrain warranty). I don't recall exactly but wasn't it a heat issue?
Oh yeah, one more thing.....................I'd be happy with either one
it wasnt until 2003.5 that thye fixed the rod bearing issues.
one thing about the comfortable thing...my m3 even with modded suspension is VERY VERY comfortable...i actually often get comments on how compliant and comfortable the car is. but like you said, most people dont track their cars and most peope dont even push their cars that hard and prob, most people who praise the 335 for its modability wont even mod because they dont want to void warranty.
also, there have been some cases of 335 engines going kaboom with vishnu tuning, so i wouldnt hold my breath on that.
Last edited by PorscheC4; Sep 9, 2007 at 10:37 AM.
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no...not heat issues for the e46 m3, the 335s are having heating and oil problems...the e46 m3 had rod bearing issues in 2001, 2002, and 2003 cars.
it wasnt until 2003.5 that thye fixed the rod bearing issues.
one thing about the comfortable thing...my m3 even with modded suspension is VERY VERY comfortable...i actually often get comments on how compliant and comfortable the car is. but like you said, most people dont track their cars and most peope dont even push their cars that hard and prob, most people who praise the 335 for its modability wont even mod because they dont want to void warranty.
also, there have been some cases of 335 engines going kaboom with vishnu tuning, so i wouldnt hold my breath on that.
it wasnt until 2003.5 that thye fixed the rod bearing issues.
one thing about the comfortable thing...my m3 even with modded suspension is VERY VERY comfortable...i actually often get comments on how compliant and comfortable the car is. but like you said, most people dont track their cars and most peope dont even push their cars that hard and prob, most people who praise the 335 for its modability wont even mod because they dont want to void warranty.
also, there have been some cases of 335 engines going kaboom with vishnu tuning, so i wouldnt hold my breath on that.
I don't doubt that about your suspension set up at all. I didn't have my '01 modded but it was pretty damn comfortable itself in stock form. I also know that the c/o suspension I put on my 996TT felt just as comfortable as the stock suspension.
I would think about ANY and ALL potential issues and past experiences of other owners when modding Turbo charged cars. Not saying I wouldn't do it (if I do move forward with a 335 I most likely will) but I will do an assload of research first.
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Thats right....rod bearing. Thanks man...I just had a complete brainfart.
I don't doubt that about your suspension set up at all. I didn't have my '01 modded but it was pretty damn comfortable itself in stock form. I also know that the c/o suspension I put on my 996TT felt just as comfortable as the stock suspension.
I would think about ANY and ALL potential issues and past experiences of other owners when modding Turbo charged cars. Not saying I wouldn't do it (if I do move forward with a 335 I most likely will) but I will do an assload of research first.
I don't doubt that about your suspension set up at all. I didn't have my '01 modded but it was pretty damn comfortable itself in stock form. I also know that the c/o suspension I put on my 996TT felt just as comfortable as the stock suspension.
I would think about ANY and ALL potential issues and past experiences of other owners when modding Turbo charged cars. Not saying I wouldn't do it (if I do move forward with a 335 I most likely will) but I will do an assload of research first.
.I really really want to see this please!
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totally agreed - i wont pay it there are far better cars for a almost exact m3 price that are far better in many categories
the look of the new m3 is starting to grow on me - but i dont like when cars need to "grow" on me - when the e46 m3 deputed there was no growth period, it was my dream car from the first time it grazed the cover of car and driver and 2 years later i placed my order and i still love the e46 m3
btw: all this 335 vs. m3 talk... 95% of people will NOT mod their car and an M car vs. a non-M car...well i just dont know what to say about it, theres no comparison the M is FAR superior car out of the box in every way shape and form.... end of argument, why talk about modding? you mod a M3 and make it better and faster then a ferrari or a porsche, but thats NOT the point and BMW knows it as do 95% of the consumers
the look of the new m3 is starting to grow on me - but i dont like when cars need to "grow" on me - when the e46 m3 deputed there was no growth period, it was my dream car from the first time it grazed the cover of car and driver and 2 years later i placed my order and i still love the e46 m3
btw: all this 335 vs. m3 talk... 95% of people will NOT mod their car and an M car vs. a non-M car...well i just dont know what to say about it, theres no comparison the M is FAR superior car out of the box in every way shape and form.... end of argument, why talk about modding? you mod a M3 and make it better and faster then a ferrari or a porsche, but thats NOT the point and BMW knows it as do 95% of the consumers
Last edited by PorscheC4; Sep 9, 2007 at 08:24 PM.
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there is a reason why the thread is closed.If id did supposedly "Melt" his cats and "fry" his ecu then it sounds like a extremely poor install which isn't the Procede's fault it didn't install it self. And just because some shop thats supposedly really good doesn't mean they know **** about procede or how it works.
Last edited by Jmoney; Sep 9, 2007 at 09:40 PM.