front end lift, clutch slippage, g force, trans temp, trans pressures just a tiny tiny bit of stuff you will want to add!! the ability to see how much hp and ft/lbs is fun as well. with undercover you have made a choice that will carry you all the way to the end of your goals. when the time for the engine to be worked on the inside you also have tim just a couple hrs away. unlikely you will find a better engine builder.
i am still saving the money for my engine build with tim and now you have me all excited again! emap sensors will tell you when you have reached the limits of the turbos. (now thats a scary thought!)

CONGRATS!!

 

What's being used to figure out hp and torque? Extrapolate from fueling or some sort of strain gauge? What's an emap sensor? A turbo speed sensor sounds interesting to me but I'd like to crawl a bit before trying to run ;-) I'm going to try and optimize what I've got before making any major changes like turbos. I'm not even sure what's on the car now but it runs well. Going MAFless will bring the spool up and power gains too I'm sure. Lots to learn, looking forward to it! :-D

 

i don't know how the hp/torque is setup garth did it while setting up the base files on the car. i have it on my can logger and its almost spot on what the dyno sheets show.

emap =exhaust manifold absolute pressure. it reads how much back pressure the exhaust is pushing back into the combustion chamber. to small an exhaust or header na you contaminate the fresh fuel mixture with burnt fumes diluting the mixture.

 

Ah okay, a sensor to measure backpressure! Yes, I'm going to install one of those as well as a pair of EGT. I'll likely do an alcohol sensor too even though I've never seen E85 available. I don't trust the pump gas and want to be able to see what's in it. I'll be researching turbo speed sensors too as that intrigues me and I never see data like that posted anywhere.

Pondering this, the ProEFI uses VE mapping. If you know VE, and you know displacement and RPM you can calculate HP, you can also calculate required fuel for a target A/F. Other variables too obviously but we have most of the numbers and if tuned on a dyno you can back it out to get VE too. That's pretty cool! http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...efficiency.htm

Garth said that ProEFI is one of the only systems that uses true VE mapping. I'm not sure that's true, I think Syveccs likely does this and Infinity too. Probably Motec and Autronic as well but I honestly don't know the nuances of all of them. We did this with the AEM V1 although it wasn't meant to be tuned that way. Someone came up with BoostComp tuning and it REALLY made tuning easier! I look forward to using a system designed to be used this way :-D

 

BLKMGK it's good to see other supra guys on here. I will probably be running an AEM soon enough with TitanMotorsports doing a lot of the front end work to relay data back to the community. Jon aka "Jestr" will be compiling this data with a press release by Onelove.

Like you, I don't want to go to as crazy as I did with the supra but hanging out too much with the TitanMotorsports guys may change that.

 

I know Titan did a bunch of work with their own car and a Motec, I was following that blog closely and then the updates just seemed to stop Hopefully they can do something similar with the AEM and keep the community updated. The Infinity looks like a VERY viable ECU but I don't want to be first or even 4th into the pool with such an expensive rebuild. I very much look forward to hearing how it goes with your car and if we can get a good tuning community going we ALL benefit! I don't want to go nuts either but I already find myself eyeing the cost of rods....

FWIW I ended up in a 996 pretty simply. My Supra was totaled through no fault of my own and I got screwed because it was "just" a Supra so to speak - some of this was my fault. Anyway, when I was done mourning and ready to buy a car I decided I wanted at least 3liters, AWD for traction, turbo, and expensive enough to not be overlooked as trash if it were totaled. I knew a guy with a 996 and thus I ended up with one myself! Parts ain't cheap so I hope to go somewhat slowly and attempt to be smart about it Probably a good thing I'm not down South with you!

 

We will definitely keep you posted. I texted Nero after seeing this post and told him we need to get this moving.

Definitely miss my supra but at least I get to see it be the fastest import in the world (Ekanoo's 6.04 supra now). I was one of the first to do a lot in that community. It may become the same with the 996 but cost is much more as you stated.

 

So, since I last posted here I've been continuing my research - specifically learning about the AEM Infinity and the ProEFI too.

Some interesting things I didn't know - the Infinity can control the Variable Vanes on the 997 turbo - we could likely put those on a 996 with that ECU. I see the ProEFI supports 997 but no mention of how the turbos are controlled - anyone know? The AEM can log the steering angle, brake application, clutch, but I don't see anything for GPS or Gs yet to really complete things! I saw an AEM video with a data overlay in the video that looked to come from the ECU, not sure how that was done. Can ProEFI do something like that by chance? Neat stuff.

AEM's datalog analysis software looks pretty darned nice. I've not yet loaded the ProEFI software but I noticed that in one video Jason was using a package that is 3rd party.

AEM does MAF tuning and can handle the dual MAF on the 997.2, very cool! They don't have cruise working for some reason, possibly for liability? I'm trying to find out but it seems like that shouldn't be an issue if others can do it.

AEM doesn't seem to have a monitor on the CAN bus like ProEFI and Syveccs, hopefully they're working it. AEM can log a ton of stuff very fast to where the media it logs to can become an issue - they support a raw format of the USB stick for faster access. USB 3 too.

AEM is also doing VE tuning, I was told that ProEFI does this differently but right now I am not sure how the two system differ in that aspect

AEM seems to have moved off of the GEMS base they used for years, much of their stuff is now created in house. I don't know if the ECU is a 100% new design or not, apparently ProEFI shares it's hardware with some others I think.

It's also looking like I'm going to have to get used to using lambda for A/F ratio. After years of only ever using gasoline it seems with blended fuels and whatnot lambda is the way to go - my head is going to hurt! I got used to BAR though so I'm still able to adapt :P

Some of the videos of the AEM traction control are pretty impressive - they're doing ABS based sensing same as ProEFI and I assume Syveccs. We've come a long ways! I'm working my way through all of the AEM vids from Telematica right now - good stuff although not perfectly shot.

I've learned a bit more about the ProEFI hardware base, shares something with the Mototron ECU? I look forward to getting my hands on it.

Someone somewhere was talking about needing a weatherproof ECU, Infinity is that but NOT potted so it can be worked on. Have to put the USB condom on though.

AEM has some pretty extensive videos from training classes and some videos explaining VE and why it's important. Syveccs has some similar videos. ProEFI has videos mostly showing off new features but not much I've found yet in the way of "here's how you do X in the software". Still looking, hoping it will be intuitive when it's installed! I could spend ages on YouTube learning it seems.

Anyone used the Adaptive Learning that ProEFI can do? I'm interested in knowing how that works if someone can speak to it. Obviously you want the VE table nailed but if it can tweak on it's own I'm interested in hearing more. AEM did this on their laptop software ages ago and I had a tough time with it. I'd like to know if ProEFI has nailed this down or not.

Wanting to learn more about the CAN stuff. Can I use that like an "expander" or some sort of multiplexer to add hardware that can do it's own decision making after receiving high speed data from the ECU? the iBoost logger seems to support that idea as I think it can be used to log?

Alright, is late but I'm learning a ton and trying to share it for others. Looks like we've got some good solutions available - you can't go wrong. Looking forward to seeing some aEM cars running soon, it's apparently a pretty new ECU still.

 

Thanks. I really appreciate all the time and work you put into this. Very useful information.

Best
Andreas

 

Not a problem, I enjoy learning about this stuff. I'll have more ProEFI information when I have mine. In the meantime

996 and 997 have A/C request done via CAN, on the 997 the cooling fans are also CAN. The cool thing about this is that controlling CAN devices doesn't require dedicated I/O. Even things like the CC light are CAN controlled. I suspect the fuel gauge may be too since so far it seems every ECU plugged into the 996 solves the weird behavior! I go on about this because in the past I've run into restrictions with outputs and inputs. All of these things used to require a dedicated wire to the ECU. Now it should be possible for a manufacturer to build a CAN capable box to offload switching or to even do processing. I've known manufacturers were moving to CAN and noticed that on my VW even the silly door locks provide status over that interface, bet they're CAN controlled too since they lock when moving. Now that I'm understanding more I'm seeing possibilities and would love to see the aftermarket build boxes for this. This is likely why the OEM PSM can still be used, the ECU provides the data it wants over CAN and the PSM takes autonomous actions and maybe even sends commands to the ECU to take action like move the throttle or drop boost. ABS too I bet. I understand that AEM may have some sort of controller for AWD available to control torque split etc. Sadly the 996 system is mechanical but the 997 electronic system might retro. ProEFI may be able to control this too but I don't know about the torque splitting etc.. I've been unable to find a front 997 diff for sale when I've looked but it would be an interesting retrofit for sure! I have DCCD in my Subaru, it's pretty nice in bad weather

Pretty sure some race dashboards are CAN, some data loggers too maybe. Lots of possibilities guys. Imagine logging GPS, steering angle, brake, clutch, and all engine data. Bet you could get lap start and stop too. ABS sensor data, clutch slippage, the list is endless. I watched video of an AEM equipped turbo Viper tearing up competition at a roll race. The datalogging and traction controls had to have been a pretty serious help.

Anyway, some of this is probably basic to others but I hope that it's eye opening to at least a few people

 

garth has my proefi for some tuning work. when i get it back ill make a short video showing all the tuning screens that are available and some of the datalogging stuff

 

Awesome! I'll get around to installing the darned software ASAP, maybe Sunday, and check it out too. All of these systems are pretty darned powerful!

My car goes in for stereo work Saturday. If I hadn't decided to do that and then do an EMS I'd be a lot more liquid! Hopefully my exhaust is built soon too, very much looking forward to that.

 

Some corrections on the AEM infinity

It has
On Board Wideband Air/Fuel Controllers 2

 

Not to be pedantic but can you please point out where that was stated as not being a feature? If I've mislead anyone I want to correct it for sure and I can't find that! Want to make sure what I post is clear and accurate.

 

Rickard, have you tuned a 996tt with Aem infinity? Trying to decide which way to go Aem or proefi.

I had Aem v1 on my Supra and was happy with it.