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great answer as always! because of the reasons you mentioned above, I have asked why anybody would do this setup as I find it ok to work for a street car, but a street car doesnt need something so aggressive
I will use the mods indicated by you, gt2/gt3/cup components to be able to fit these bigger tires ... only went with RSS instead of PM as pricing was incredible higher (read double or more)
will do a separate thread for that, but want to thank you here again for all your great support !
OP, sorry for this short off topic ! Enjoy your new setup and let us know how it feels, I am also looking forward to knowing how these RE-11 will act, maybe you can compare to other tires too
great answer as always! because of the reasons you mentioned above, I have asked why anybody would do this setup as I find it ok to work for a street car, but a street car doesnt need something so aggressive
I will use the mods indicated by you, gt2/gt3/cup components to be able to fit these bigger tires ... only went with RSS instead of PM as pricing was incredible higher (read double or more)
will do a separate thread for that, but want to thank you here again for all your great support !
OP, sorry for this short off topic ! Enjoy your new setup and let us know how it feels, I am also looking forward to knowing how these RE-11 will act, maybe you can compare to other tires too
No problem Fadi. Let me know how it all works out. As far as the subframe bushings go, you can get the 996Cup parts or buy the Tarett or Torque solution ones. They are all the same, just steel bushings. The TS is the cheapest. The last thing I forgot to mention with going to the 255/325 for the track, unless you are running a very light (read fragile) slicks, you are just adding to the unsprung mass of the whole wheel assembly. Some of the tires are incredibly heavy in the large 325/30/19 sizes and people tend to overlook that. Unsprung mass at the worst possible location is a performance killer. Some of the 325/30s are up to 35lbs per tire and when you combine it with the heavier 19" wheel it's a double whammy. Choosing a light forged 19" wheel is paramount. The 325/30/19 Porsche spec MPSC+ is 28lbs by comparison, Dunlap RaceMaxx is 30, the MPSC2 is 31, Pirelli Trofeo 31. The MPSC2 is an awesome street tire and would be my choice for a street car but it's $$$$. Again, this is stuff to think about for a track set up and not really all that important for a street car where a heavy wheel/tire assembly will give the car added high speed straight line stability at the expense of maneuverability and agility.
Sorry to take this off topic a bit, looking forward to OPs results. Should be nice...
Last edited by pwdrhound; Dec 23, 2015 at 09:35 AM.
Been there done that Fadi. The 19" 255/325 combo will work on the street at moderate ride heights but it's just not possible to run it very low as you would with an aggressive track set up. The diameters are just too huge to stuff in the wheel wells even with aggressively rolled fenders. The fenders are not really the problem. You also need to run springs in the 1500# range to keep wheel compression to a minimum which obviously requires $$$ race dampers. With a soft suspension there is just too much compression travel and the tire will contact the wheel well at the top on larger bumps. Due to the speeds and amount of tire grip on slicks or semi slicks, the amount of load and compression on a suspension at the track is much much greater than what you will encounter with street use. From a safety standpoint, you can't afford to have ANY rubbing at the track. If you want to run the car at a GT2 ride height for example, you will need to run the rear suspension 0.6-0.7" lower than a GT2 (actually closer to 1" lower due to the TT subframe bushings) which will reduce the clearance above the top of the tires by 1.4-1.6" compared to a GT2 on 315/30/18s. Running it that low will require the subframes to be raised and a bump steer kit to be used to preserve the correct suspension geometry. Lots is at play here to do it properly. The TT is already at a disadvantage with it's rubber donut subframe bushings that place the car 7mm higher relative to the rear suspension than a GT2/3. You will want to replace those with solid bushings regardless. At higher ride heights and street use it's not a problem but for a track set up it's not ideal. Even on the 305/30/19 set up you'll want 1000# springs at a minimum for the track.. Doing the subframe mounts is a given for track use.
I do understand all of this. Subframe bushing are in a box waiting to be put in a long with many other suspension parts. I did not of measuring to make sure I had enough travel. My car will sit higher than most guy but that is also largely due to I need it to be. With some of the roads and driveways in my area at current height it's very hard to drive. Car needs to go up and 1.5 in the front. About half that will be just front the tires being taller.
I know this is not ideal for most guys or is to the point guys want to mod stuff to make them work. Personally I think it will be very nice and provide a huge traction increase both front and rear which my car needs as well as look fairly nice.
I will have to change springs though to that I have to get yet. I'm on h&r coilovers which aren't the greatest but they do the job.
No problem Fadi. Let me know how it all works out. As far as the subframe bushings go, you can get the 996Cup parts or buy the Tarett or Torque solution ones. They are all the same, just steel bushings. The TS is the cheapest. The last thing I forgot to mention with going to the 255/325 for the track, unless you are running a very light (read fragile) slicks, you are just adding to the unsprung mass of the whole wheel assembly. Some of the tires are incredibly heavy in the large 325/30/19 sizes and people tend to overlook that. Unsprung mass at the worst possible location is a performance killer. Some of the 325/30s are up to 35lbs per tire and when you combine it with the heavier 19" wheel it's a double whammy. Choosing a light forged 19" wheel is paramount. The 325/30/19 Porsche spec MPSC+ is 28lbs by comparison, Dunlap RaceMaxx is 30, the MPSC2 is 31, Pirelli Trofeo 31. The MPSC2 is an awesome street tire and would be my choice for a street car but it's $$$$. Again, this is stuff to think about for a track set up and not really all that important for a street car where a heavy wheel/tire assembly will give the car added high speed straight line stability at the expense of maneuverability and agility.
Sorry to take this off topic a bit, looking forward to OPs results. Should be nice...
If I end up tracking through car a lot I will buy a set of 18s for just that as well. Honestly right now because of how work is in the summer I make it to 3-4 autox events and maybe 1 track day weekend. It's sad.
lots of valuable info, and pwdr has as usual made many valuable points. man, is there ANY setup he hasn't tried?!!
but i was wondering how you would make a 12" rear in 19 work for tracking, far less a concern on the street, i would think? but by way of example, just pounding canyons and extremely tight corners i have managed to completely rub thru the rear section of the stock inner liner, while my outer fenders are of course, rolled. there's no rub there, even under hard compression, but the cornering has killed the inner liner, it's shot to hell. my *hope* is that replacing it with the gt2 liners ( which i've put off forever now its a necessity! ) will at least lessen if not fully eliminate that rub. again, with a 19 i cant even imagine it. but road coursing has possibly less hard impact compressions? as i have bounced the car in these 15 mph rounders, many a time.
hopefully you wont have that issue, and as you've said, if you begin tracking with more regularity, i can see you'd quickly opt for an 18 setup. sounds like 19's are a tough compromise vis a vis ride height and tracking VS street use. but i guess any "dual duty" setup, is a compromise by definition? but pls do let us all know! esp how those re11's work out once scrubbed! pretty sure they come in gt2 sizes so i'm always looking for options, and always come back to MY 2 choices for lack of any other! so ps2 or p zero's. again, gl with it!
lots of valuable info, and pwdr has as usual made many valuable points. man, is there ANY setup he hasn't tried?!!
but i was wondering how you would make a 12" rear in 19 work for tracking, far less a concern on the street, i would think? but by way of example, just pounding canyons and extremely tight corners i have managed to completely rub thru the rear section of the stock inner liner, while my outer fenders are of course, rolled. there's no rub there, even under hard compression, but the cornering has killed the inner liner, it's shot to hell. my *hope* is that replacing it with the gt2 liners ( which i've put off forever now its a necessity! ) will at least lessen if not fully eliminate that rub. again, with a 19 i cant even imagine it. but road coursing has possibly less hard impact compressions? as i have bounced the car in these 15 mph rounders, many a time.
hopefully you wont have that issue, and as you've said, if you begin tracking with more regularity, i can see you'd quickly opt for an 18 setup. sounds like 19's are a tough compromise vis a vis ride height and tracking VS street use. but i guess any "dual duty" setup, is a compromise by definition? but pls do let us all know! esp how those re11's work out once scrubbed! pretty sure they come in gt2 sizes so i'm always looking for options, and always come back to MY 2 choices for lack of any other! so ps2 or p zero's. again, gl with it!
Really it's the tire size not the wheel size that effects you for rubbing. Overall diameter and width. For suspension setup though the 19s well have more unsprung weight which you have to account for.
As for re-11, they ate great tires for duAL purpose cars, aggressive street with some weekend racing. Also pretty good in the rain. The re71 their new compound is insanely sticky but they do not make a rear size for us yet. You can get them on the front though. Even know the re11 and re71 are both 200 aa tires the 71 wearucj faster. Re71 is what all the autox guy in my area are running for the most part.
lots of valuable info, and pwdr has as usual made many valuable points. man, is there ANY setup he hasn't tried?!!
but i was wondering how you would make a 12" rear in 19 work for tracking, far less a concern on the street, i would think? but by way of example, just pounding canyons and extremely tight corners i have managed to completely rub thru the rear section of the stock inner liner, while my outer fenders are of course, rolled. there's no rub there, even under hard compression, but the cornering has killed the inner liner, it's shot to hell. my *hope* is that replacing it with the gt2 liners ( which i've put off forever now its a necessity! ) will at least lessen if not fully eliminate that rub. again, with a 19 i cant even imagine it. but road coursing has possibly less hard impact compressions? as i have bounced the car in these 15 mph rounders, many a time.
hopefully you wont have that issue, and as you've said, if you begin tracking with more regularity, i can see you'd quickly opt for an 18 setup. sounds like 19's are a tough compromise vis a vis ride height and tracking VS street use. but i guess any "dual duty" setup, is a compromise by definition? but pls do let us all know! esp how those re11's work out once scrubbed! pretty sure they come in gt2 sizes so i'm always looking for options, and always come back to MY 2 choices for lack of any other! so ps2 or p zero's. again, gl with it!
The overall diameter/width is the problem. Is not really an issue of 18 vs. 19s. I have both. 235/35/19 + 305/30/19 on 19x9x12 and 245/40/18 + 305/35/18 on 18x9x12. The 18" set up actually has slightly larger tire diameters (25.55/26.42) than the 19s.
The reason you are rubbing through the liners is probably the offset of your rear wheels. For 18x12 (or 19x12) you will want an ET40. Many guys run ET45 which is stock GT2 but the 5mm difference is important. The GT2 liners are identical to the TT liners, they just mount on the side with a different bracket thus freeing up a little room by the IC hose. It's about 1/4-3/8" extra. The final reason you generally get rubbing is the fact that when all the rubber in the stock TT/GT2 suspension (namely the LCA T/A bushing) compresses, it allows the whole wheel assembly to move for and aft by up to a 1/4" or more under braking and acceleration. The older the suspension the worse it gets. This is also a reason many guys see terrible rear tire wear as the toe is constantly changing. If you install rear monoball ends and solid T/A bushings in your rear LCAs, most of these problems go away or are greatly minimized.
Last edited by pwdrhound; Dec 23, 2015 at 01:38 PM.
i dunno man... my last set i ran for 5 years exactly what you suggest and were 9x12 w 40 offset front AND rear. newer ones are oem gt2 size = 8.5x12 w 40x45 offset and i'm guessing that most of the damage to the stock rear liners occurred while i was running the 12" with the 40 offset and the 315/30/18 which is still what i run.
someone knows! i just don't. all i do know is i need gt2 rear liners.
but that below, is what i think is happening
Originally Posted by pwdrhound
The final reason you generally get rubbing is the fact that when all the rubber in the stock TT/GT2 suspension (namely the LCA T/A bushing) compresses, it allows the whole wheel assembly to move for and aft by up to a 1/4" or more under braking and acceleration.
Last edited by '02996ttx50; Dec 23, 2015 at 04:44 PM.
Good news. The re-11 run a little small diamter wise compared to how they should calculate. Deflated they are 26.25 compared to the 26.7. So inflated they might be 26.5. Every little bit helps. Here is them compared to the 275/35/19 I used to measure stuff on the car which are 26.7 tall.
...just checked again. TR offers all of THREE tire choices in 18" gt2 sizes. for a grand for all 4 corners a set? i may as well just get a pirelli decal too
you ain't kiddin about the lack of tire choices. i go thru this twice a year when i replace rears. sheesh. has ANYone yet tried the goodrich g-force rivals?
sorry.. this is your thread and you're running 19's. just more xmas eve day thinkin out loud.. my bad....
...just checked again. TR offers all of THREE tire choices in 18" gt2 sizes. for a grand for all 4 corners a set? i may as well just get a pirelli decal too
you ain't kiddin about the lack of tire choices. i go thru this twice a year when i replace rears. sheesh. has ANYone yet tried the goodrich g-force rivals?
sorry.. this is your thread and you're running 19's. just more xmas eve day thinkin out loud.. my bad....
No biggy. The rivals are a very good tire. The are designed to be a dual purpose tire like the re-11, street and track 200 aa tire. From guys I know who have run them they like them a lot, I would not hesitate to buy them.
Tire rack does really nice reviews of you have not watched them yet.
i have been following them. it was the initial reviews upon release that mentioned ( which BFGR actually acknowledged! ) regarding reported events of "tread separation" of the initial ( sorry ) rollout and first renditions of the rivals. as i have understood it, this has been remedied in the newer versions. i wouldn't hesitate to try them now, but i'm weird in that i prefer to run matching front/rear tires. even though my rwd setup makes it purely academic to do so. it's just me being weird and/or a holdover from my thinking from when the car was still awd.
btw..thx for the advice. you know vastly more than i do about this stuff.
i have been following them. it was the initial reviews upon release that mentioned ( which BFGR actually acknowledged! ) regarding reported events of "tread separation" of the initial ( sorry ) rollout and first renditions of the rivals. as i have understood it, this has been remedied in the newer versions. i wouldn't hesitate to try them now, but i'm weird in that i prefer to run matching front/rear tires. even though my rwd setup makes it purely academic to do so. it's just me being weird and/or a holdover from my thinking from when the car was still awd.
btw..thx for the advice. you know vastly more than i do about this stuff.
You don't have to run matched front and rear if you don't want to but you should be somewhat close in class of tire between the 2. Don't want to run and all season on the front and a track tire on the back. I know lots of guys that run a stickier tire on the front or rear to change the traction character of the car depending on what they are using the car for.
yeah, that much i have sorted out especially given how few choices in 315/30/18 exist. the most mixing i ever do is a ps2 rear X a pss front. or i once put p zero's front while running new ps2's! rear. since the pss is ( or was? ) available in a 235/40 while the pss does NOT make a 315/30/18... WHY!?.. i ask rhetorically! but i always run max performance "summer" tires and am sticking ( sorry ) with N rated tires, or have so far. except for ONE time which turned out to be an ill informed decision, but thats just my "opinion" based upon my experience.
but i have relished the relative freedom of the ability to mix and match with impunity, the fronts to rears, owing to the running rwd, something i wouldn't even consider if i were still awd.
yeah, that much i have sorted out especially given how few choices in 315/30/18 exist. the most mixing i ever do is a ps2 rear X a pss front. or i once put p zero's front while running new ps2's! rear. since the pss is ( or was? ) available in a 235/40 while the pss does NOT make a 315/30/18... WHY!?.. i ask rhetorically! but i always run max performance "summer" tires and am sticking ( sorry ) with N rated tires, or have so far. except for ONE time which turned out to be an ill informed decision, but thats just my "opinion" based upon my experience.
but i have relished the relative freedom of the ability to mix and match with impunity, the fronts to rears, owing to the running rwd, something i wouldn't even consider if i were still awd.
I'm not quite as worried about the n spec as most guys.
As for the rivals, you can get a riVal s 245/40/18 front and 315/30/18 rear. The s warm up a little faster but wear faster but overall they are almost the same tire as the rivals. I'd was going to get a straight track setup those are r888 would be what I'd get currently. Smaller diamter than the bigger 19s so no worry about and rubbing on track and great grip.
