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I would be EXTREMELY weary of using anything but proper German made TUV approved lug bolts or studs/nuts on any car that is used for high performance driving. The stresses that go though the wheel / hub assemblies are truly staggering (especially in the rear) when you combine high lateral loads along with high torque. It's the repeated lateral loads that do the damage in my opinion as opposed to high torque alone.
Maybe I'll just go with the studs and get the length needed to fit the spacers with the stock wheels and then 2 sets of nuts. The forgestars will be used most of the time but I'm going to be putting some new all season tires on the stock wheels for spring and late fall trips when the weather is not as nice.
Yeah, this makes perfect sense. I agree as well. Also, what the hound mentions about not torquing down the bolts/nuts enough being an issue as well. If the studs/bolts are not up to par it's a lose/lose.
Originally Posted by '02996ttx50
that's exactly what i've been alluding to. Originally Posted by pwdrhound
I would be EXTREMELY weary of using anything but proper German made TUV approved lug bolts or studs/nuts on any car that is used for high performance driving. The stresses that go though the wheel / hub assemblies are truly staggering (especially in the rear) when you combine high lateral loads along with high torque. It's the repeated lateral loads that do the damage in my opinion as opposed to high torque alone.
Yup, just figure out the longest you need the studs to be and buy two sets of nuts.
Originally Posted by flewis763
Maybe I'll just go with the studs and get the length needed to fit the spacers with the stock wheels and then 2 sets of nuts. The forgestars will be used most of the time but I'm going to be putting some new all season tires on the stock wheels for spring and late fall trips when the weather is not as nice.
I'll be very interested in the experience. I REALLY like some of the Forgestar wheels and the price is right but snapping lugs and going through the crap Mark did is a non-starter for me.
tell me. i sure wouldve liked just ONE definitive explanation ( from f'star? from the place i ordered 'em?? ANYone! ) as to what was causing ( the ) issues ) the first was the requirement of a wheel hub insert since the wheels were never specifically made for porsche in 18" ( hence the hubcentcric rings required to run an 18 star in the first place! ) and (b) even more importantly, ( its the lug HOLES in the wheels themselves ) that are ill suited to porsche oem lugs or any that are not cone seat.
someone can correct me of they can/would/will/want to..but far as i know?
ya cant put a ball seat lug into a cone seat hole! and therein lies the dilemma as far as i could ever tell. the holes in the forgestar wheel are ball seat holes and we need holes that take CONE seat lugs.
leave it to me to have gotten this backwards IF i have? but either way, that's the issue I'm sure of it. ( it's possible though i DO have it have it back
as*wards but that barely even relevant..but what it DOES DO is makes it impossible for the lug to EVER properly seat inside the wheel. hub centric ring ( not needed for 19's ) or not.
and i spent hours ensuring the lugs were lining properly against the hub etc. making sure it wasn't the "hub centric ring" etc... i cant even tell you what i went thru..
next time i got wheels made for the car w a 5x130 pattern that fit just fine and were made to use the standard TUV lugs. whew.
The stock bolts are ball. Most wheels are cone. If you switch to studs, which seemed like a no brainer to me, you can then use either ball or cone nuts depending on what the wheels you're using require. Using the wrong type is asking for problems.
Mark, It is quite confusing ...the holes in our oem wheels are ball seat and the Forgestars (along with many other aftermarket wheel brands) are conical.
There are several "versions" of ball seat out there as well. R12, R13, and R14 these are all different versions of ball seat. R13 is very common for VW/Audi and I believe our Porsche wheels are R14.
Below are two of the most common conical styles, one uses a splined socket that goes over the bolt (this is what Forgestar uses) and the other uses an allen type tool.
Rather than use the unknown quality bolts that come with a lot of the aftermarket wheels it might be a good option to get a set of studs that are at least rated for track use. Once converted to studs you can get the conical nuts and r14 ball seat nuts and slide your wheels on and off at will
I had researched converting to studs a while back and read some good reviews at rennlist for the rennline studs as well as apex competition. I also looked at a company called motorsporthardware, I have not used either but those were the ones I was looking at. Perhaps pwdr can chime in with a good source.
tell me. i sure wouldve liked just ONE definitive explanation ( from f'star? from the place i ordered 'em?? ANYone! ) as to what was causing ( the ) issues ) the first was the requirement of a wheel hub insert since the wheels were never specifically made for porsche in 18" ( hence the hubcentcric rings required to run an 18 star in the first place! ) and (b) even more importantly, ( its the lug HOLES in the wheels themselves ) that are ill suited to porsche oem lugs or any that are not cone seat.
someone can correct me of they can/would/will/want to..but far as i know?
ya cant put a ball seat lug into a cone seat hole! and therein lies the dilemma as far as i could ever tell. the holes in the forgestar wheel are ball seat holes and we need holes that take CONE seat lugs.
leave it to me to have gotten this backwards IF i have? but either way, that's the issue I'm sure of it. ( it's possible though i DO have it have it back
as*wards but that barely even relevant..but what it DOES DO is makes it impossible for the lug to EVER properly seat inside the wheel. hub centric ring ( not needed for 19's ) or not.
and i spent hours ensuring the lugs were lining properly against the hub etc. making sure it wasn't the "hub centric ring" etc... i cant even tell you what i went thru..
next time i got wheels made for the car w a 5x130 pattern that fit just fine and were made to use the standard TUV lugs. whew.
Last edited by gophaster; Feb 2, 2016 at 08:40 AM.
Mark, It is quite confusing ...the holes in our oem wheels are ball seat and the Forgestars (along with many other aftermarket wheel brands) are conical.
There are several "versions" of ball seat out there as well. R12, R13, and R14 these are all different versions of ball seat. R13 is very common for VW/Audi and I believe our Porsche wheels are R14.
Rather than use the unknown quality bolts that come with a lot of the aftermarket wheels it might be a good option to get a set of studs that are at least rated for track use. Once converted to studs you can get the conical nuts and r14 ball seat nuts and slide your wheels on and off at will
I had researched converting to studs a while back and read some good reviews at rennlist for the rennline studs as well as apex competition. I also looked at a company called motorsporthardware, I have not used either but those were the ones I was looking at. Perhaps pwdr can chime in with a good source.
Yes, Porsche ball seat lug nuts or bolts are a 14mm radius (R14). They are different than what is used on Audi or VW. I'm not a fan of the Apex studs. I've seen and heard of a number of these failing at the track. It could be due to under-torquing however instead of stud quality. Don't know. I don't like to experiment as I've never had an issue with the German H&R studs. My shop runs these on all their race cars. Zero failures so far. They are available in a variety of lengths to suit all needs (see link below). Many companies sell these. Just google "H&R Quicksafe studs 14x1.5". You can get them in 20-70mm length in 10mm increments. H&R Quick Safe 30mm studs (1453005) are good for wheels without spacers. For a 7-10mm spacer, use 40mm studs (1454005). Use 32ft.lbs to tighten the stud into the hub and then use 118ft.lb on the wheel lugs. Use Porsche OEM steel lug nuts.
O you do. I did the one side rear and front but need to do the others. Just put the wheels on for pics. Roll and mod the fenders liners in the rear, mod the radiator bracket and liners in the front.
What exactly did you do to mod the front radiator brackets? I'm switching to 275/335s and will need to do the front brackets. I haven't pulled the liners yet to see what need to be done so I figured I'd check with you. I think there was a thread to it a while back but can't seem to find it. Thanks! Your car looks great by the way..
Last edited by pwdrhound; Feb 21, 2016 at 11:17 AM.
What exactly did you do to mod the front radiator brackets? I'm switching to 275/335s and will need to do the front brackets. I haven't pulled the liners yet to see what need to be done so I figured I'd check with you. I think there was a thread to it a while back but can't seem to find it. Thanks! Your car looks great by the way..
I had my shop do something similar but I think they ground down just enough for clearance in the middle section instead of cutting above and below to try and keep as much strength in the part as possible.
I had my shop do something similar but I think they ground down just enough for clearance in the middle section instead of cutting above and below to try and keep as much strength in the part as possible.
Yep that is what ya have to do. Depends on how crazy you want to get. 275s are not as tall so I don't think they will be quite as bad, just edge of tire at full lock.
