A day in paradise: Watching my Cargraphic Turbo tuned by GIAC
#46
06-27-2009, 06:44 PM
Numbers aside, I am finding out as I get more of a handle on what's going on, that this thing does feel like a rocket, even in normal mode. In second and third gears the tach needle sweeps towards red line at an utterly alarming rate; as if it's a knife slicing through thin air. The car propels forwards like a Torpedo and cars next to mine on the freeway simply disappear in a tic tac when I punch on the gas. My Turbo baby is kicking *** big time. 
For the life of me, I can't fathom what it must feel like in those higher power cars like eclou's, etc.
For the life of me, I can't fathom what it must feel like in those higher power cars like eclou's, etc.
I switched mine back to stock to take it in for PM at the dealership, and it felt like I was driving a different car.
#47
06-27-2009, 09:42 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,115
Rep Power: 254 
In retrospect, with the Flashloader feature, I didn't need to "worry." I could easily compare tune to stock and see the difference for myself and return the ECU for refund if I don't like it. Together with a full refund offer, this shows GIAC's confidence: They "dare" you to compare tune to stock and make it very easy to do so.
BTW, I have my Flashloader permanently attached to the steering column and am having great fun with it; going back and forth to compare stock versus tune. Here is a link to the Flashloader thread in case anyone is interested: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...er-system.html . It is a great thread with other info on tuning as well and should be required reading for us amateurs.
#48
06-27-2009, 09:56 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,115
Rep Power: 254
cayenne_ksa,
Thanks. The key is we are all having fun!
OT: Have you found an answer to your question about the KW V3?
Thanks. The key is we are all having fun!
OT: Have you found an answer to your question about the KW V3?
Last edited by cannga; 06-28-2009 at 01:32 AM.
#51
06-29-2009, 08:31 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,115
Rep Power: 254
Clay997tt, ok ok I'll change the signature!
Neil, below is an update of my initial review on page 1. Once I again I should mention I love the Flashloader's ability to let you flash back to stock. Other GIAC owners don't seem to use it much but for a nerd like me
, who likes to compare things, it's an amazing tool. It allows me to compare Stock to Tune with complete confidence.
A lot of people have reported on ECU tunes so I have very little to add here, especially since mine is only a modest stage 2. But a few points for those on the fence, my preliminary subjective evaluation (specific to my car and personal preference and not meant to be "authoritative" in any way, shape, or form; we all have different goals for our cars):
(Edited on 6/29, after about 2 weeks with the tune. The Normal mode feels much much quicker than I had judged initially.):
1. Before the tune I was skeptical and worried whether I would feel a difference. You could rest assured the power increase is VERY SIGNIFICANT and very easily noticeable.
You’ve tried to run in the swimming pool, with water up to your waste? There is this heaviness to forward progression. That’s what the stock car feels like compared to a tuned car. My GIAC Turbo feels like it has a spring in the engine; springy and very light footed is how I would describe it. When you press on the gas pedal on the freeway, cars besides simply disappear like Star Trek's warp speed effect. I am NOT kidding.
The problem I have now is I keep speeding even when I know there are plenty of cops around. It’s very hard to resist. It’s fun.
It's interesting to note that when you switch the car from Stock to Tune mode using the wonderful Flashloader, it doesn't feel faster until after a while (I don't know how long this adaptation takes; I've not tested it enough.). I've been told this is because the DME does take time to adapt.
2. Lag (what happens when you press gas pedal at 4000 rpm, slight lag in response in stock car): Virtually eliminated, in both Normal and Sport Mode. This more linear engine response might be a subtle point but to me is a major reason why we should all upgrade our ECU.
3. Spool up (what happens when you really smash on gas pedal at 2000 rpm, power doesn’t kick in until 2800-3000 in stock car): Perhaps a bit faster, but essentially no change. You don't normally feel this effect since most of the times your shift will occur at above 3000. So basically in normal driving the car feels like it has a Naturally Aspirated engine.
4. The GIAC car feels very fast already in Normal Mode. Thankfully it retains some of the desirable "gentleness" of stock that I could use it comfortably in my daily commute in congested LA freeways. Most importantly, there is only mild noise increase and there is no resonance. The pedal response, to my relief, is stock like and allows for relaxed cruising when I want to. Performance wise, GIAC Normal mode feels halfway between Stock Sport and GIAC Sport.
5. In GIAC Sport mode, all hell breaks loose, and one has to be VERY careful around curves in this mode. That said, the power delivery is still linear. There is so much power here that the wimpy me actually drives in Normal Mode most of the times. Believe me on this one, the Sport Mode is insanity incarnate. The Sport Mode is slightly noisier as well, but still acceptable and there is no resonance at higher rpm.
6. Fuel Consumption: For obvious reason, not an important point. But FWIW, I haven't done a formal comparison yet but a preliminary glance at the MPG indicates I am leaving a rather large carbon foot print.
Since all the ECU tunes on the market seem to deliver lots of power, besides power other factors that one should consider are: How the power is delivered (peaky versus linear), the throttle response (an overly sensitive throttle response bothers me, think of driving the car at 5000 rpm all the time), whether there is significant more noise and resonance, and how the exhaust note is changed. From my limited experience, I think it's possible that all ECU tunes, because of manipulation of ignition timing and AFR, make the car louder and affect the exhaust note. And the degree that each tune does this could vary significantly and possibly could vary from one exhaust system to the next. Thankfully, the GIAC tune has very little effect on noise, resonance, and the sound of the exhaust note. So slight is the change that without the Flashloader for me to go back and forth to compare, I would have some difficulty noticing the change. And I am a Golden Eared Audiophile LOL. I breathed a sigh of relief when I first sat in the GIAC car; very much stock like with respect to noise. On a scale of 1 (stock) to 10 (bad), I would give a rating between 2 and 3, in other words, outstanding. With respect to the exhaust note, there is slight reduction of the low frequency guttural roar, and a slight shift to higher frequency. The rumbling is still there, but now I only trigger about 3 car alarms in the parking garage of my work place when I arrive in the morning. It used to be 5, 6.
6. So what? Screw the warranty. Run, don’t walk, to your nearest GIAC dealer! Because the Flashloader has the ability to return your car completely to stock behavior if you don't like the tune mode (it works as adverised), you have absolutely nothing to lose (kind of
), and everything to gain with this mod.
Neil, below is an update of my initial review on page 1. Once I again I should mention I love the Flashloader's ability to let you flash back to stock. Other GIAC owners don't seem to use it much but for a nerd like me
, who likes to compare things, it's an amazing tool. It allows me to compare Stock to Tune with complete confidence.A lot of people have reported on ECU tunes so I have very little to add here, especially since mine is only a modest stage 2. But a few points for those on the fence, my preliminary subjective evaluation (specific to my car and personal preference and not meant to be "authoritative" in any way, shape, or form; we all have different goals for our cars):
(Edited on 6/29, after about 2 weeks with the tune. The Normal mode feels much much quicker than I had judged initially.):
1. Before the tune I was skeptical and worried whether I would feel a difference. You could rest assured the power increase is VERY SIGNIFICANT and very easily noticeable.
You’ve tried to run in the swimming pool, with water up to your waste? There is this heaviness to forward progression. That’s what the stock car feels like compared to a tuned car. My GIAC Turbo feels like it has a spring in the engine; springy and very light footed is how I would describe it. When you press on the gas pedal on the freeway, cars besides simply disappear like Star Trek's warp speed effect. I am NOT kidding.
The problem I have now is I keep speeding even when I know there are plenty of cops around. It’s very hard to resist. It’s fun.
It's interesting to note that when you switch the car from Stock to Tune mode using the wonderful Flashloader, it doesn't feel faster until after a while (I don't know how long this adaptation takes; I've not tested it enough.). I've been told this is because the DME does take time to adapt.
2. Lag (what happens when you press gas pedal at 4000 rpm, slight lag in response in stock car): Virtually eliminated, in both Normal and Sport Mode. This more linear engine response might be a subtle point but to me is a major reason why we should all upgrade our ECU.
3. Spool up (what happens when you really smash on gas pedal at 2000 rpm, power doesn’t kick in until 2800-3000 in stock car): Perhaps a bit faster, but essentially no change. You don't normally feel this effect since most of the times your shift will occur at above 3000. So basically in normal driving the car feels like it has a Naturally Aspirated engine.
4. The GIAC car feels very fast already in Normal Mode. Thankfully it retains some of the desirable "gentleness" of stock that I could use it comfortably in my daily commute in congested LA freeways. Most importantly, there is only mild noise increase and there is no resonance. The pedal response, to my relief, is stock like and allows for relaxed cruising when I want to. Performance wise, GIAC Normal mode feels halfway between Stock Sport and GIAC Sport.
5. In GIAC Sport mode, all hell breaks loose, and one has to be VERY careful around curves in this mode. That said, the power delivery is still linear. There is so much power here that the wimpy me actually drives in Normal Mode most of the times. Believe me on this one, the Sport Mode is insanity incarnate. The Sport Mode is slightly noisier as well, but still acceptable and there is no resonance at higher rpm.
6. Fuel Consumption: For obvious reason, not an important point. But FWIW, I haven't done a formal comparison yet but a preliminary glance at the MPG indicates I am leaving a rather large carbon foot print.
Since all the ECU tunes on the market seem to deliver lots of power, besides power other factors that one should consider are: How the power is delivered (peaky versus linear), the throttle response (an overly sensitive throttle response bothers me, think of driving the car at 5000 rpm all the time), whether there is significant more noise and resonance, and how the exhaust note is changed. From my limited experience, I think it's possible that all ECU tunes, because of manipulation of ignition timing and AFR, make the car louder and affect the exhaust note. And the degree that each tune does this could vary significantly and possibly could vary from one exhaust system to the next. Thankfully, the GIAC tune has very little effect on noise, resonance, and the sound of the exhaust note. So slight is the change that without the Flashloader for me to go back and forth to compare, I would have some difficulty noticing the change. And I am a Golden Eared Audiophile LOL. I breathed a sigh of relief when I first sat in the GIAC car; very much stock like with respect to noise. On a scale of 1 (stock) to 10 (bad), I would give a rating between 2 and 3, in other words, outstanding. With respect to the exhaust note, there is slight reduction of the low frequency guttural roar, and a slight shift to higher frequency. The rumbling is still there, but now I only trigger about 3 car alarms in the parking garage of my work place when I arrive in the morning. It used to be 5, 6.
6. So what? Screw the warranty. Run, don’t walk, to your nearest GIAC dealer! Because the Flashloader has the ability to return your car completely to stock behavior if you don't like the tune mode (it works as adverised), you have absolutely nothing to lose (kind of
), and everything to gain with this mod.
Last edited by cannga; 06-30-2009 at 01:02 AM.
#52
06-29-2009, 09:00 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 6,379
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#54
06-29-2009, 10:30 PM
Great wrote up. I agree, the GIAC guys are the best and really know their stuff and take the time to pass it on. The test driver was J-Rod and hes a cool guy. Try the race gas and you will really see what the car can do with some good octane. The east coast guys are spoiled with their 93. Thats the main reason why they have higher dyno numbers. My advise would be to get the IC's from AWE next to drop your intake temps so your engine will be happier and allow you to run more timing. You can should be able to see from your dyno chart this is the major limiting factor.
#55
06-29-2009, 11:39 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,115
Rep Power: 254
Sure Chris, below is dyno of the car. The car was dyno'ed on that very first day, multiple times at stock and then during the tuning. The following is the final single run after the final tune and I believe the last of about 6-8 dyno's or so. There might be plan for more dyno runs in the future for confirmation, perhaps with better cooling & condition (more time, DME with complete "adaptation," etc.).
With respect to horsepower, as mentioned previously the gain is on the low end (of GIAC Stage 2 cars), 423 hp (versus Clay997tt's car with 440 hp for example). Although the max value percentage gain is 8% only (versus the normal 10-12%), the area under curve is good. At 4500 rpm for example there is a nice 28% increase in gain. As having been pointed out, with higher Octane gas than my 91, and much better cooling when car is traveling at 125 mph instead of being stationary on chassis dyno, I expect result to be better. By how much, I don't know. Regardeless, enough already & I don't plan to quibble GIAC for another 17 hp. LOL
With respect to torque, the gain is a healthy 17%: 498 versus 426 stock. The torque curve is very nice and has a wide & excellent & flat plateau from around 3300 to 4300. Area under curve is outstanding. GIAC is happy with the torque gain and shape of the curve.
So what does all this means? Can't tell other than that subjectively the car drives like a torpedo with linear power delivery (based on my limited comparison experience).
Objectively, I do not have 60-130 mph time measured by PBOX, which as many would agree is the bottom line, not any horsepower claim.
I think one will need an intercooler, as have been suggested by many here, if horsepower is the name of the game. Personally, I will say "no mas" since car feels so fast already. I am having some trouble adjusting to how fast I come up to other cars ahead of me plus the thing feels like it's going downhill all the time.
.
With respect to horsepower, as mentioned previously the gain is on the low end (of GIAC Stage 2 cars), 423 hp (versus Clay997tt's car with 440 hp for example). Although the max value percentage gain is 8% only (versus the normal 10-12%), the area under curve is good. At 4500 rpm for example there is a nice 28% increase in gain. As having been pointed out, with higher Octane gas than my 91, and much better cooling when car is traveling at 125 mph instead of being stationary on chassis dyno, I expect result to be better. By how much, I don't know. Regardeless, enough already & I don't plan to quibble GIAC for another 17 hp. LOL
With respect to torque, the gain is a healthy 17%: 498 versus 426 stock. The torque curve is very nice and has a wide & excellent & flat plateau from around 3300 to 4300. Area under curve is outstanding. GIAC is happy with the torque gain and shape of the curve.
So what does all this means? Can't tell other than that subjectively the car drives like a torpedo with linear power delivery (based on my limited comparison experience).
Objectively, I do not have 60-130 mph time measured by PBOX, which as many would agree is the bottom line, not any horsepower claim.
I think one will need an intercooler, as have been suggested by many here, if horsepower is the name of the game. Personally, I will say "no mas" since car feels so fast already. I am having some trouble adjusting to how fast I come up to other cars ahead of me plus the thing feels like it's going downhill all the time.
.
Last edited by cannga; 06-30-2009 at 12:57 PM.
#56
06-29-2009, 11:48 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,115
Rep Power: 254
Oh yes, very good points. My dyno above is with ****ty California 91 gas.
And yes, I know, your post is the 26th time I hear I need an intercooler. Thanks but please remember I am quite a "gentle" (read wimpy) Turbo owner: I think there is so much power already! I have in effect cancelled any plan, much to Garrett's disappointment I am sure, to try race gas.
And yes, I know, your post is the 26th time I hear I need an intercooler.
Thanks but please remember I am quite a "gentle" (read wimpy) Turbo owner: I think there is so much power already! I have in effect cancelled any plan, much to Garrett's disappointment I am sure, to try race gas.... Try the race gas and you will really see what the car can do with some good octane. The east coast guys are spoiled with their 93. Thats the main reason why they have higher dyno numbers. My advise would be to get the IC's from AWE next to drop your intake temps so your engine will be happier and allow you to run more timing. You can should be able to see from your dyno chart this is the major limiting factor.
Last edited by cannga; 06-30-2009 at 12:03 AM.
#57
06-30-2009, 01:22 AM
Thanks to the crew of GIAC, I had a day in paradise for a car enthusiast yesterday: Watching the pro’s tune the ECU of my Turbo.
In case you don’t already know, the only addition to my car so far is the Cargraphic Loud exhaust. I’ve been shopping, and thinking about ECU tune for a year now. My hesitancy is partly related to warranty issue, and partly related to the fact that I use the car as a daily driver on <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:city w:st="on"><ST1>Los Angeles </ST1></st1:city>freeways, don’t track the car, and occasionally take the wife on Porsche club drives. I therefore am a difficult and “enigmatic” customer: I would like more power, but not too much power LOL; and it’s very important to me that my car retains its daily-drive ability. Above all & at least for now, I don't want to have to replace the clutch, or any other hardware as a matter of fact (more on this later). In other words, if you are into killer horsepower and 60-130 times, check this "landmark" GIAC/AWE thread by eclou instead -- this car went to 186 mph at Texas mile: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...it-review.html .
<O></O>
My impression of GIAC, having spent a day “infiltrating” the office and facility: A serious, very tightly run, very well organized operation. That said, the guys were at heart car guys like all of us here. I’ve read about what Garrett has done in the past, and it’s a pleasure to finally meet the G of GIAC (Garrett Integrated Automotive Corporation). I found out Garrett is a Porsche nut like us, owner of a rather well tuned 996 Turbo, and even better yet, is a graduate of Cal Berkeley. This has got to be a big plus as it seems some smart people go to school there (ha ha, nudge nudge wink wink, go Bears!). The crew was enthusiastic, helpful, and spent time explaining & answering my amateurish questions (Thank you!). I still forgot to ask what that curve Motec AF is, and which way is good. LOL.
<O></O>
Garrett, Andrew, Austin<st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city>, and my mysterious test driver whose name I don’t remember (sorry) worked on my car. There were a few dyno runs with the stock chip, then the program is loaded onto a spare ECU (My stock ECU remains original and "untouched." The spare ECU is avail. for $650 from Sunset Porsche, plus 200 or so from the dealer to load the original Porsche DME program, then the flash goes on top of this.), and then the crew went to work fine tuning the curves, with tuning dynos in between. For those with Cargraphic exhausts, this means GIAC now has a file that’s specific to the exhaust and I believe you should make a point to ask for this file specifically.
<O></O>
A couple of notes before I forget. I am loath to replace any hardware in my Turbo baby (since I think it’s the cause of many problems reported with modding, usually secondary to some kind of disconnect or installation problem), but I could have sworn Garrett and Andrew mentioned replacing the stock intercooler with something like the AWE intercooler about 20 times yesterday when I was at the shop. Or was it 25? At any rate, this should give you an idea of how important it is in their eyes to lower Intake Air Temp.
The second thing I heard, this one only about 12 times, is how horrible 91 PON California gasoline is. And how I should try race gas at my earliest opportunity. Garrett, ever the car enthusiast, wanted me to try the higher octane stuff on the way home. LOL.
<O></O>
A lot of people have reported on ECU tunes so I have very little to add here, especially since mine is only a modest stage 2. But a few points for those on the fence, my preliminary subjective evaluation (specific to my car and personal preference and not meant to be "authoritative" in any way, shape, or form; we all have different goals for our cars):
(Edited on 6/29, after about 2 weeks with the tune. The Normal mode feels much much quicker than I had judged initially.):
1. Before the tune I was skeptical and worried whether I would feel a difference. You could rest assured the power increase is VERY SIGNIFICANT and very easily noticeable.
You’ve tried to run in the swimming pool, with water up to your waste? There is this heaviness to forward progression. That’s what the stock car feels like compared to a tuned car. My GIAC Turbo feels like it has a spring in the engine; springy and very light footed is how I would describe it. When you press on the gas pedal on the freeway, cars besides yours simply disappear like Star Trek's warp speed effect. I am NOT kidding.
The problem I have now is I keep speeding even when I know there are plenty of cops around. It’s very hard to resist. It’s fun.
It's interesting to note that when you switch the car from Stock to Tune mode using the wonderful Flashloader, it doesn't feel faster until after a while (I don't know how long this adaptation takes; I've not tested it enough.). I've been told this is because the DME does take time to adapt.
2. Lag (what happens when you press gas pedal at 4000 rpm, slight lag in response in stock car): Virtually eliminated, in both Normal and Sport Mode. This more linear engine response might be a subtle point but to me is a major reason why we should all upgrade our ECU.
3. Spool up (what happens when you really smash on gas pedal at 2000 rpm, power doesn’t kick in until 2800-3000 in stock car): Perhaps a bit faster, but essentially no change. You don't normally feel this effect since most of the times your shift will occur at above 3000. So basically in normal driving the car feels like it has a Naturally Aspirated engine.
4. The GIAC car feels very fast already in Normal Mode. Thankfully it retains some of the desirable "gentleness" of stock that I could use it comfortably in my daily commute in congested LA freeways. Most importantly, there is only mild noise increase and there is no resonance. The pedal response, to my relief, is stock like and allows for relaxed cruising when I want to. Performance wise, GIAC Normal mode feels halfway between Stock Sport and GIAC Sport.
5. In GIAC Sport mode, all hell breaks loose, and one has to be VERY careful around curves in this mode. That said, the power delivery is still linear. There is so much power here that the wimpy me actually drives in Normal Mode most of the times. Believe me on this one, the Sport Mode is insanity incarnate. The Sport Mode is slightly noisier as well, but still acceptable and there is no resonance at higher rpm.
6. Fuel Consumption: For obvious reason, not an important point. But FWIW, I haven't done a formal comparison yet but a preliminary glance at the MPG indicates I am leaving a rather large carbon foot print.
Since all the ECU tunes on the market seem to deliver lots of power, besides power other factors that one should consider are: How the power is delivered (peaky versus linear), the throttle response (an overly sensitive throttle response bothers me, think of driving the car at 5000 rpm all the time), whether there is significant more noise and resonance, and how the exhaust note is changed. From my limited experience, I think it's possible that all ECU tunes, because of manipulation of ignition timing and AFR, make the car louder and affect the exhaust note. And the degree that each tune does this could vary significantly. Thankfully, the GIAC tune has very little effect on noise, resonance, and the sound of the exhaust note. So slight is the change that without the Flashloader for me to go back and forth to compare, I would have some difficulty noticing the change. And I am a Golden Eared Audiophile LOL. I breathed a sigh of relief when I first sat in the GIAC car; very much stock like with respect to noise. On a scale of 1 (stock) to 10 (bad), I would give a rating between 2 and 3, in other words, outstanding. With respect to the exhaust note, there is slight reduction of the low frequency guttural roar, and a slight shift to higher frequency. The rumbling is still there, but now I only trigger about 3 car alarms in the parking garage of my work place when I arrive in the morning. It used to be 5, 6.
6. So what? Screw the warranty. Run, don’t walk, to your nearest GIAC dealer! Because the Flashloader has the ability to return your car completely to stock behavior if you don't like the tune mode (it works as adverised), you have absolutely nothing to lose (kind of), and everything to gain with this mod.
<O></O>
I have some pictures to load later when I have time (very busy!), and video of one of the dyno runs if my kids teach me how to put it on youtube. And maybe when I come back from vacation, my report on higher octane gas.
In case you don’t already know, the only addition to my car so far is the Cargraphic Loud exhaust. I’ve been shopping, and thinking about ECU tune for a year now. My hesitancy is partly related to warranty issue, and partly related to the fact that I use the car as a daily driver on <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:city w:st="on"><ST1>Los Angeles </ST1></st1:city>freeways, don’t track the car, and occasionally take the wife on Porsche club drives. I therefore am a difficult and “enigmatic” customer: I would like more power, but not too much power LOL; and it’s very important to me that my car retains its daily-drive ability. Above all & at least for now, I don't want to have to replace the clutch, or any other hardware as a matter of fact (more on this later). In other words, if you are into killer horsepower and 60-130 times, check this "landmark" GIAC/AWE thread by eclou instead -- this car went to 186 mph at Texas mile: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...it-review.html .
<O></O>
My impression of GIAC, having spent a day “infiltrating” the office and facility: A serious, very tightly run, very well organized operation. That said, the guys were at heart car guys like all of us here. I’ve read about what Garrett has done in the past, and it’s a pleasure to finally meet the G of GIAC (Garrett Integrated Automotive Corporation). I found out Garrett is a Porsche nut like us, owner of a rather well tuned 996 Turbo, and even better yet, is a graduate of Cal Berkeley. This has got to be a big plus as it seems some smart people go to school there (ha ha, nudge nudge wink wink, go Bears!). The crew was enthusiastic, helpful, and spent time explaining & answering my amateurish questions (Thank you!). I still forgot to ask what that curve Motec AF is, and which way is good. LOL.
<O></O>
Garrett, Andrew, Austin<st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city>, and my mysterious test driver whose name I don’t remember (sorry) worked on my car. There were a few dyno runs with the stock chip, then the program is loaded onto a spare ECU (My stock ECU remains original and "untouched." The spare ECU is avail. for $650 from Sunset Porsche, plus 200 or so from the dealer to load the original Porsche DME program, then the flash goes on top of this.), and then the crew went to work fine tuning the curves, with tuning dynos in between. For those with Cargraphic exhausts, this means GIAC now has a file that’s specific to the exhaust and I believe you should make a point to ask for this file specifically.
<O></O>
A couple of notes before I forget. I am loath to replace any hardware in my Turbo baby (since I think it’s the cause of many problems reported with modding, usually secondary to some kind of disconnect or installation problem), but I could have sworn Garrett and Andrew mentioned replacing the stock intercooler with something like the AWE intercooler about 20 times yesterday when I was at the shop. Or was it 25?
At any rate, this should give you an idea of how important it is in their eyes to lower Intake Air Temp.The second thing I heard, this one only about 12 times, is how horrible 91 PON California gasoline is. And how I should try race gas at my earliest opportunity. Garrett, ever the car enthusiast, wanted me to try the higher octane stuff on the way home. LOL.
<O></O>
A lot of people have reported on ECU tunes so I have very little to add here, especially since mine is only a modest stage 2. But a few points for those on the fence, my preliminary subjective evaluation (specific to my car and personal preference and not meant to be "authoritative" in any way, shape, or form; we all have different goals for our cars):
(Edited on 6/29, after about 2 weeks with the tune. The Normal mode feels much much quicker than I had judged initially.):
1. Before the tune I was skeptical and worried whether I would feel a difference. You could rest assured the power increase is VERY SIGNIFICANT and very easily noticeable.
You’ve tried to run in the swimming pool, with water up to your waste? There is this heaviness to forward progression. That’s what the stock car feels like compared to a tuned car. My GIAC Turbo feels like it has a spring in the engine; springy and very light footed is how I would describe it. When you press on the gas pedal on the freeway, cars besides yours simply disappear like Star Trek's warp speed effect. I am NOT kidding.
The problem I have now is I keep speeding even when I know there are plenty of cops around. It’s very hard to resist. It’s fun.
It's interesting to note that when you switch the car from Stock to Tune mode using the wonderful Flashloader, it doesn't feel faster until after a while (I don't know how long this adaptation takes; I've not tested it enough.). I've been told this is because the DME does take time to adapt.
2. Lag (what happens when you press gas pedal at 4000 rpm, slight lag in response in stock car): Virtually eliminated, in both Normal and Sport Mode. This more linear engine response might be a subtle point but to me is a major reason why we should all upgrade our ECU.
3. Spool up (what happens when you really smash on gas pedal at 2000 rpm, power doesn’t kick in until 2800-3000 in stock car): Perhaps a bit faster, but essentially no change. You don't normally feel this effect since most of the times your shift will occur at above 3000. So basically in normal driving the car feels like it has a Naturally Aspirated engine.
4. The GIAC car feels very fast already in Normal Mode. Thankfully it retains some of the desirable "gentleness" of stock that I could use it comfortably in my daily commute in congested LA freeways. Most importantly, there is only mild noise increase and there is no resonance. The pedal response, to my relief, is stock like and allows for relaxed cruising when I want to. Performance wise, GIAC Normal mode feels halfway between Stock Sport and GIAC Sport.
5. In GIAC Sport mode, all hell breaks loose, and one has to be VERY careful around curves in this mode. That said, the power delivery is still linear. There is so much power here that the wimpy me actually drives in Normal Mode most of the times. Believe me on this one, the Sport Mode is insanity incarnate. The Sport Mode is slightly noisier as well, but still acceptable and there is no resonance at higher rpm.
6. Fuel Consumption: For obvious reason, not an important point. But FWIW, I haven't done a formal comparison yet but a preliminary glance at the MPG indicates I am leaving a rather large carbon foot print.
Since all the ECU tunes on the market seem to deliver lots of power, besides power other factors that one should consider are: How the power is delivered (peaky versus linear), the throttle response (an overly sensitive throttle response bothers me, think of driving the car at 5000 rpm all the time), whether there is significant more noise and resonance, and how the exhaust note is changed. From my limited experience, I think it's possible that all ECU tunes, because of manipulation of ignition timing and AFR, make the car louder and affect the exhaust note. And the degree that each tune does this could vary significantly. Thankfully, the GIAC tune has very little effect on noise, resonance, and the sound of the exhaust note. So slight is the change that without the Flashloader for me to go back and forth to compare, I would have some difficulty noticing the change. And I am a Golden Eared Audiophile LOL. I breathed a sigh of relief when I first sat in the GIAC car; very much stock like with respect to noise. On a scale of 1 (stock) to 10 (bad), I would give a rating between 2 and 3, in other words, outstanding. With respect to the exhaust note, there is slight reduction of the low frequency guttural roar, and a slight shift to higher frequency. The rumbling is still there, but now I only trigger about 3 car alarms in the parking garage of my work place when I arrive in the morning. It used to be 5, 6.
6. So what? Screw the warranty. Run, don’t walk, to your nearest GIAC dealer! Because the Flashloader has the ability to return your car completely to stock behavior if you don't like the tune mode (it works as adverised), you have absolutely nothing to lose (kind of
), and everything to gain with this mod.<O></O>
I have some pictures to load later when I have time (very busy!), and video of one of the dyno runs if my kids teach me how to put it on youtube. And maybe when I come back from vacation, my report on higher octane gas.
DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goregous ride! WOW!
#58
06-30-2009, 11:15 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Orange County Socal
Posts: 1,621
Rep Power: 157 Oh yes, very good points. My dyno above is with ****ty California 91 gas.
And yes, I know, your post is the 26th time I hear I need an intercooler. Thanks but please remember I am quite a "gentle" (read wimpy) Turbo owner: I think there is so much power already! I have in effect cancelled any plan, much to Garrett's disappointment I am sure, to try race gas.
And yes, I know, your post is the 26th time I hear I need an intercooler.
Thanks but please remember I am quite a "gentle" (read wimpy) Turbo owner: I think there is so much power already! I have in effect cancelled any plan, much to Garrett's disappointment I am sure, to try race gas.Don't stop now buddy. You've already taken the first hit
Speed addiction is a dangerous habit my friend! You will soon get used to the power and it will feel slow to you soon enough. Trust me. Cheers!
#59
06-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,115
Rep Power: 254
Mike, most people don't know this, but you are my secret consultant for nearly all of my mods (I've probably PM'ed you more than any other.). You've spent a lot of my hard-earned money, "friend." 
GTGuy, thanks!
GTGuy, thanks!
Last edited by cannga; 06-30-2009 at 11:31 AM.
#60
06-30-2009, 03:35 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Orange County Socal
Posts: 1,621
Rep Power: 157 I'm glad I can help. Don't worry, I will be spending some of my own hard earned money on a new project I will be starting.