I am looking to replace the stock clutch in my 997 Turbo. This is a stage II ECU tune so torque is higher than stock but not outrageously so. My main interest is to maintain the stock-like feel and stock-like clutch takeup point. The problem I have is that although some foroum friends have told me that Sachs stage 2 should feel like stock, I've seen report of a stage 2 clutch with lwfw that doesn't seem like it's the same as stock at all.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...pressions.html
The biggest thing that I notice is that first gear is totally different. The Sachs system is not nearly as forgiving as the stock system. I have not stalled the car for months but I stalled it in first gear several times yesterday and once on my way in to work today. When the pedal is ready to engage, you are IN GEAR and you better be ready. I am not mixing the gas with the clutch engagement much - if at all - right now.

Also found this post by eclou:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...utch-feel.html
I recently upgraded my stage 2 Sachs clutch to the xxx764 pressure plate with the stock friction disc. This has completely stock feel and engagement without any significant increase in effort or take-up. There is no chatter, no grabbing, etc. Rated for over 800 ft lbs.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

1. So what's your advice please? Which stage 2 kit should I buy for a most stock like performance, medium high torque rating?
2. I've read something like an "organic plate," on Vivid Racing's site. http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/s...7-p-58569.html . What is an organic plate?
3. What is that xxx764 pressure plate that eclou is talking about? Where do I buy it?

Thanks in advance.

 

Can,

Before you jump into a LWFW, I would srongly strongly suggest you try one out first.

1. Every LWFW will have chatter. With sport mode on, the RPMs are a little higher, masking the sound, but if you drive in one with the AC on after the car has warmed up, it will be noticable. This may not be acceptable to you. Furthermore, when you mash on the accelerator on a higher gear, many will also hear a little rattle. Try before you buy.

2. LWFW may provide a performance boost in short acceleration, but the quickest 911s all use a dual mass setup...for many, a LWFW's benefit of easy revving and rev-matching are worth the added noise.

3. If going with a LWFW, you may want to consider getting rid of the hydraulic assist to help with modulation of the clutch ie GT3 RS.

I strongly recommend trying a LWFW setup in another member's car before leaping into it.

 

If I may throw another option into the ring, you should also consider the EVOMS Stg3 clutch. It utilizes an OEM Sachs motorsport pressure plate, custom designed EVOMS ceramic disk, and OEM dual mass flywheel. Personally, I think it's about as close to the stock feel you can get while still reliably being able to handle most high horsepower applications.

 

Can,

The standard Sach's stage 2 clutch with a OEM dual mass flywheel should suit your needs. Being the audiophile you are, the chatter from the LWFW would drive you NUTS! I can live with it. I accepted the trade off of the noise for getting quicker throttle response like Bobby said. I only really notice the chatter when the AC is on.

Let me know and you can take mine for a spin and decide from there. As far as the pedal feel goes, it sucks. The stock pedal feel sucks IMO and it get's worse with the LWFW. I've been meaning to get the GT2 conversion done, but just haven't had the time.

 

Can, I have the Sachs racing clutch (stage2??).
Totally stock drivability with only a slight increase in pedal feel,using the stock flywheel.

 

How much power are you running Can?

 

I would not recommend a LWFW, the chatter will drive you nuts.

 

the stock clutch feel is an absolute shame on this car...I would trade a harder pedal for consistency.

 

Thanks everyone for the reply. Sorry I wasn't clear in my original question: I do NOT plan to get the LWFW at all. My plan is the basic Sachs Stage 2 Clutch.

The reason I quoted that thread https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...pressions.html was Barrister's description of how he stalled his car in first gear repeatedly with the new clutch, which I had thought was not related to the LWFW, but now that I think about it, maybe it was?
Bottom line seems to be, for more stock like feel, definitely LWFW is out of the question?

Matthew, the car has the GIAC Stage 2 custom tune. The dyno was posted here https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ed-giac-5.html. The hp is 423 (baseline 393), torque 498 (baseline 426), but as has been suggested by a friend, that horsepower (and the curve) could be depressed if the clutch is slipping.
Regardless of that dyno, I finally tested the car in Sport mode with the GIAC tune (I rarely use Sport mode because I really find the power so much already in Normal mode), and with WOT in 4th gear from 2000 rpm, the clutch slips easily and badly. Definitely a good news (lots of power ) bad news (needs new clutch ) situation.

My question is related to how I use this car: I drive the car daily and really have no plan to go to Stage 3 (intercooler). Although the assisted stock clutch is far from perfect, I would be perfectly happy if the Sachs replacement feels similar to it, and not like what Barrister describes. So it looks like Sachs Stage 2 with stock fly wheel?
Thanks again for all the help.

 

I never wore out my clutch and at 4500 miles I jumped to 700 from estimated 600 . The upgrade will drive you nuts . I neve even liked the stock clutch . Hands down I preferred the 997S manual clutch over the Turbo . The power assist is downright awful and it almost led me away from even buying the car . The upgrade makes engagement even more tricky . 10 hours of labor, and no power assist it's better than it was and can take massive HP.

I worry about your reaction to the change . I know you love your car and probably will have a cow no matter what you do . I hope I am wrong but at least you can psychologically prepare .

 

Have you considered:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...id-racing.html

 

Can, send me a PM when you want to talk. We are direct with Sachs Racing. Mehmet actually reads 6speed occasionally.

I have driven all of the Sachs variants and even know about some new stuff just released.

 

I use the Clutch Masters Stage 3 full disk on my 997TT. It is nice and easy to engage but can hold up to 700+ horsepower. They use SACHS oem pressure plate and clutch disk that is beefed up by clutch masters. I never use a lightweight flywheel because of chatter. Here is the link to read more - http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/c...7-p-58568.html

 

Dan, any reviews on Clutchmasters 850 Twin Disc that you offer? Looks like a light weight alternative.

 

It is an incredible system for those running big power and want the whole shabang. I spoke with Clutch Masters this morning about it. They just has a car with this clutch dyno at 770awhp and it held great. As you saw from my post or the Product Info Here, because of the design it is a great unit for those wanting street comfort but able to handle the power.

I would like to get this on a 997TT for your feedback as it is well respected. Contact me for a promotional deal.