Xonas are on!
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E85 all day every day LOL. Only run 93oct right before winter for storage and in spring.
I really like the power growth potential of going wastegates but keeping the long block stock makes the extra costs of going wastegates harder to justify. Sure they are more efficient, less pumping work, etc. but there are a lot more costs to do the switch as you know.
I really like the power growth potential of going wastegates but keeping the long block stock makes the extra costs of going wastegates harder to justify. Sure they are more efficient, less pumping work, etc. but there are a lot more costs to do the switch as you know.
Speaking of PTF, I think I saw his car in a parking lot downtown when I was going for dinner pre-Def Leppard/Journey concert. After dinner I just missed him as his car just pulled out of the parking lot. I think he paid extra to have the car in the special parking spot at the front. I'm too cheap for that. And I don't drive my Porsche downtown.
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Originally Posted by y996t
So are you saying Going external wastegate it’s better than the iinternal wastegate if so then will it be better just to go with some 3076’s
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I think they will all work well, the 71mm,73mm, and 76mm. Boggs for example makes close to 20psi by 4krpm. Is that good enough response? If not try the 71mm etc. Boggs turbos should do around 1100hp flywheel with a built engine and around 900hp flywheel on e85. This is an estimate.
For comparison my 63.5mm vtgs do 22.5 psi by 3400rpm and are done around 830hp flywheel on e85.
For comparison my 63.5mm vtgs do 22.5 psi by 3400rpm and are done around 830hp flywheel on e85.
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I don't want to hijack Boggs Xona thread so I'll be brief. My 63.5 spool up almost at the 90deg angle plotted on a graph lol. Sam's 68s are super nice, I would use them. I have lots of data on them. I don't have a lot of data on stock engine Xona setups that's why I'm here learning from Bogg 
If you want to chat more just send me a message so we can give Bogg his thread back 
If you want to chat more just send me a message so we can give Bogg his thread back
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Bogg I’m happy for you and it seems like your really starting to dial in these turbos...are you planing to give us some dyno graphs...from talking to my tuner I know if you let the 3076s go you can see great response by 3800..how much faster do you feel the 3073 spool...I know your on a stock block and you really have to progressively feed boost..so from my research it looks like 3071 spool from 3200-3400 your somewhere in the middle and the 3076s spool from 3800-4000 rpms...hope to see some graphs soon like you I’m planning to use 93octane 80% of the time....
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Guys, feel free to hijack the thread with general turbo questions. My purpose for making this thread was to share info about non-vtg turbos as it seemed like a big black box with lots of questions and not a lot of easy answers for noobs like me. I'm still planning on making another thread "tips for noobs going beyond vtgs" as there are a lot of things I learned which I'm happy to share to help other noobs get past the initial fear of the unknown when it comes to non-vtgs. I wish I had found the info I now have but for some reason it just wasn't out there.
If I had someone like AIM or Underground Tuning nearby I would have bought the parts from them, had them install the parts, and had a dynotune done by them to optimize things in one package. I went with Sam for a number of reasons and no regrets but that's because I didn't have local expertise. I mention AIM and Underground because it's obvious from their threads that they have experience with non-vtg turbos and know how to set them up properly.
If I had someone like AIM or Underground Tuning nearby I would have bought the parts from them, had them install the parts, and had a dynotune done by them to optimize things in one package. I went with Sam for a number of reasons and no regrets but that's because I didn't have local expertise. I mention AIM and Underground because it's obvious from their threads that they have experience with non-vtg turbos and know how to set them up properly.
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Brooklyn,
I've had stock, stock plus tune, 63s, 68s, and now Xona 3073 equivalents. I would say that the spool on the 3073 is excellent for street use and I don't miss anything about my previous turbos with these on pumpgas. Well okay, there were fewer noises with the 68s lol. Sounds like a herd of ghosts is following you around with these turbos. Classic whistling on spool up but on deceleration there is a "whooooooo" sound like ghosts are everywhere, lol. Wonder what bystanders think, lol. Plus there is the "just opened a cold beer" sound from the bovs anytime you come off boost.
Like Maestro said, if you are sticking with stock rods and engine then my recommendation would be these turbos. After all, it's why I picked them, lol. Good enough spool that you aren't left missing your vtgs, and plenty of topend flow to accelerate seemingly endlessly.
I was ready to toss a kilobuck at Sam for a new custom Cobb tune for my 68s until I had to drop my engine. I was going to get the DO88 big pack anyway. So the incremental cost for me was the turbos (which actually cost less than the 68s, AND I had to give Champion my old stock turbos!!), boost controller, lineset, and bovs. There is a bit of labour to get the boost controller mounted and hooked up, weld the bovs but other than that the labour wouldn't be much different compared with swapping to bigger vtgs while engine is down.
I've had stock, stock plus tune, 63s, 68s, and now Xona 3073 equivalents. I would say that the spool on the 3073 is excellent for street use and I don't miss anything about my previous turbos with these on pumpgas. Well okay, there were fewer noises with the 68s lol. Sounds like a herd of ghosts is following you around with these turbos. Classic whistling on spool up but on deceleration there is a "whooooooo" sound like ghosts are everywhere, lol. Wonder what bystanders think, lol. Plus there is the "just opened a cold beer" sound from the bovs anytime you come off boost.
Like Maestro said, if you are sticking with stock rods and engine then my recommendation would be these turbos. After all, it's why I picked them, lol. Good enough spool that you aren't left missing your vtgs, and plenty of topend flow to accelerate seemingly endlessly.
I was ready to toss a kilobuck at Sam for a new custom Cobb tune for my 68s until I had to drop my engine. I was going to get the DO88 big pack anyway. So the incremental cost for me was the turbos (which actually cost less than the 68s, AND I had to give Champion my old stock turbos!!), boost controller, lineset, and bovs. There is a bit of labour to get the boost controller mounted and hooked up, weld the bovs but other than that the labour wouldn't be much different compared with swapping to bigger vtgs while engine is down.
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Guys, feel free to hijack the thread with general turbo questions. My purpose for making this thread was to share info about non-vtg turbos as it seemed like a big black box with lots of questions and not a lot of easy answers for noobs like me. I'm still planning on making another thread "tips for noobs going beyond vtgs" as there are a lot of things I learned which I'm happy to share to help other noobs get past the initial fear of the unknown when it comes to non-vtgs. I wish I had found the info I now have but for some reason it just wasn't out there.
If I had someone like AIM or Underground Tuning nearby I would have bought the parts from them, had them install the parts, and had a dynotune done by them to optimize things in one package. I went with Sam for a number of reasons and no regrets but that's because I didn't have local expertise. I mention AIM and Underground because it's obvious from their threads that they have experience with non-vtg turbos and know how to set them up properly.
If I had someone like AIM or Underground Tuning nearby I would have bought the parts from them, had them install the parts, and had a dynotune done by them to optimize things in one package. I went with Sam for a number of reasons and no regrets but that's because I didn't have local expertise. I mention AIM and Underground because it's obvious from their threads that they have experience with non-vtg turbos and know how to set them up properly.
I seriously doubt you would have a better experience or outcome with any other tuner or facility with a 997
Sam is always there to answer my questions even though I never spent any money with him yet - this is showing me that when I need a tuner he will be the one who will be there to support me and take the time to finish the project to its completion
Once I am ready for a tune I am doing it with Sam - these off the shelf Cobb maps leave a little to be desired
I previously used softronics I believe was the name in my last 997 and the quality of the tune was vastly superior to the Cobb off the shelf maps for the Porsche
I am looking forward to working with Sam - he is the man
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Cheers 08 anytime and i am happy you love your system!
Bogg. The shop did a pretty good job sill and you are learning the HKS fast! Remember this is part of the fun for a lot of us. Before you know it she will be all done and you will get the itch again haha. Hopefully not! But yes these will take you past to 1000wheel with good octane but so much more has to happen for that to happen you know. You have just peeled back a layer. So even with a built motor I rarely like to go over 900-1000 wheel. So much more top spend on and so much more to go wrong. You will notice lots of big HP cars are pretty high maintenance. I wish I could fly over and do it with you but she is looking better every time you adjust. Considering we are on v4 and v1-v3 were just to make sure all was safe and installed properly I am really happy with it so far on CAN pump. I will send something in the morning!
P.S. anyone that has VTG's and E85 available including Bogg I would say give 720-750 wheel on VTG's a shot and then decide as you would be maxing out safe limits there and run very strong. But on low grade pump especially the WG turbo's will offer more so in this case great choice.
On turbo size guys I would consult your tuner and go over goals. We can make a 3076 or even 79 feel great. just depends on so many factors. And different tuners will push a turbo to different levels so max power is debatable. for example these all do much more than TiAL designates and they do it long term.
Bogg. The shop did a pretty good job sill and you are learning the HKS fast! Remember this is part of the fun for a lot of us. Before you know it she will be all done and you will get the itch again haha. Hopefully not! But yes these will take you past to 1000wheel with good octane but so much more has to happen for that to happen you know. You have just peeled back a layer. So even with a built motor I rarely like to go over 900-1000 wheel. So much more top spend on and so much more to go wrong. You will notice lots of big HP cars are pretty high maintenance. I wish I could fly over and do it with you but she is looking better every time you adjust. Considering we are on v4 and v1-v3 were just to make sure all was safe and installed properly I am really happy with it so far on CAN pump. I will send something in the morning!
P.S. anyone that has VTG's and E85 available including Bogg I would say give 720-750 wheel on VTG's a shot and then decide as you would be maxing out safe limits there and run very strong. But on low grade pump especially the WG turbo's will offer more so in this case great choice.
On turbo size guys I would consult your tuner and go over goals. We can make a 3076 or even 79 feel great. just depends on so many factors. And different tuners will push a turbo to different levels so max power is debatable. for example these all do much more than TiAL designates and they do it long term.
What would you recommend as the best entry level turbos with a goal of making a very safe 100 whp over the stock ones - say about 625 - 650 whp on 93 octane? Thank you
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We’ve made that kind of power time and time again on the 997 and 991 with our TiAL 65 and 68mm VTG’s. I love them and they are very reliable. You just have to see if you have plans to go bigger in the future and that’s another Wreason why this thread by Bogg is so helpful for people. You can make another 100 hp with E85 too.
In the end perhaps it is easier (if not more costly) to just swap the turbos and run a safe conservative pump gas map and you can always have a race gas map we your ace in the hole if you ever want to go crazy. I have been down the 1,000 whp car route before and no desire to ever head down that road again. From my past experience everything has a sweet spot and when you start to press the envelope the time to BOA (break out another thousand) becomes more and more frequent. A nice reliable 600 whp car that does not break transmissions and axels or need exotic clutches seems to make more sense to me especially when they are starting to make people who drive triple digits serve time in jail around here
Am in wrong in questioning the dependability and reliability of E85 supplies which seem to vary from station to station and week to week?
Last edited by 08957; Jun 4, 2018 at 10:41 PM.