Stuff I am working on - Page 14 - 6SpeedOnline - Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource

Aston Martin DB7, DB9, DBS, Vantage V8, Vanquish, and Classic models
Sponsored by:

Stuff I am working on

  #196  
Old 06-28-2018, 04:52 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Aargau
Age: 55
Posts: 59
Rep Power: 4
TR-Spider is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by era2076 View Post
So I purchased, installed, and ran a full set of V12VS upper arms on the street which got me thinking.
I can't find the numbers of the V12VS items.
Can you share the numbers, please?

Thomas

PS: thanks for the enlightenment...much appreciated.
 

Last edited by TR-Spider; 06-28-2018 at 04:54 PM.
  #197  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:25 PM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
Front upper 6G43-3091-AB


Rear Upper ED-23-5K743-AA



You'll need to run down right or left, but it should get you in there. I was a little unsure of these numbers so I checked AstonBits and they do show these numbers under the V12.



chr
 
  #198  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:40 PM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
I drove the car to work this morning and noticed the rear is over damped. I had Mike take it to lunch and he too stated it was very stiff in the rear. I softened the compression in the rear 3 increments (put us back to the middle) and had him drive it again. It is very smooth and goes over manhole covers with quiet thumps and no jarring. The rear feels much more settled when you get on it. The rebound is still set at 3/4. We do not notice any abnormal NVH with the rear compression set softer. I knew the rear was somewhat over damped, but the new bushings seemed to exacerbate it. We made no changes to the front dampening. We pulled all four arms out this afternoon and will fit the shims for free articulation tomorrow.



chr
 
  #199  
Old 06-30-2018, 11:45 AM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
Each bushing must be checked for fit - we used the following.

The arms were binding some when we put it together. After 25 miles a couple were really binding. We removed each arm and inspected them and then re-installed one at a time. The bushing needs to rotate around the clamped sleeve. The arm should not rotate around the bushing.

Example => on the front passenger, with both bushing bolts loosely installed and using the OEM torque spec, we torqued the rear bolt until the arm had too much resistance to rotate freely. We loosened that bolt until the arm could again move freely and then tightened the front bolt until it too was too tight to rotate. We noted the difference in torque between the two and then made an educated guess on how much to remove not wanting to remove too much. In our case it was usually .010 on one bushing and .020 on the other. One of the arms took a couple of iterations. With the bolts torqued to spec, all four now drop with minimal effort. This again changed the driving feel - I most likely will put a little compression back into the rear.

While test driving we rolled 2K miles since purchased.

A beautiful machine for sure.

chr
 
  #200  
Old 06-30-2018, 04:46 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Aargau
Age: 55
Posts: 59
Rep Power: 4
TR-Spider is on a distinguished road
Reminds me on the times when I experimented with making my own PU wishbone bushings (not on the Vantage).
It took quite some time to get the amount of preload correct (too litle-wobbly, too muchbinding) - similar but different problem to yours, as with the Delrin there should be (almost) zero preload necessary.
Any kind of binding will lead to awkward responses.
I also ended up cutting lubricant-distributing-channels (inside bushing towards sleeve) and mounting grease nipples.

Nice work - and yes, a beautiful machine it is indeed.

Thomas
 
  #201  
Old 07-05-2018, 02:34 PM
bunob's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: France
Posts: 209
Rep Power: 14
bunob is on a distinguished road
Nice job !
Could you give us the size of the OEM bushes ?
- int diam
- ext diam
- length
- etc

Maybe Power flex could have anything of a suitable size ?

Why dont you install somthing like this :
 
  #202  
Old 07-05-2018, 04:07 PM
irish07's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,426
Rep Power: 100
irish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond reputeirish07 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by era2076 View Post
Front upper 6G43-3091-AB


Rear Upper ED-23-5K743-AA



You'll need to run down right or left, but it should get you in there. I was a little unsure of these numbers so I checked AstonBits and they do show these numbers under the V12.



chr
The front upper arms are actually:
RHS: DG43-3084-AB
LHS: DG43-3091-AB
These fronts are on the V12VS and also the GT8.

The rear upper arms:
ED23-5K743-AA (universal sided)

The fronts can be put on any Vantage..V8/V12, doesn't matter. It's the rears that some ppl run into an issue due to the upper rears having the headlight leveling sensor attached. You could in theory just tie wrap or make your own mounting for the level sensor arm...Aston actually deleted the level sensor because it did virtually nothing with the stiff suspension(if you have the sensor, don't just keep it lose, needs to be fixed/secured to arm). Drill a hole, tap it and a 1-hole 'L' bracket works great. The cutoff for not having the rear level sensor attached to upper arm is 12.25MY.

The V12V and V12VS arms are not the same. The V12V still has the plastic bushing sleeves while the 2013+ DB9/Vanquish/V12VS all have metal sleeved bushing. The plastic sleeved bushing are known to slide/walk in the arm and the metal sleeved bushings stay in place.

FYI, when the bushing walks/slides, this offsets the caster which affects the camber, and in result sets out the toe..aka screws up your alignment and wears tires prematurely.

There's already spherical ball joint versions, but are from AMR for the GT4.
 
  #203  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:38 PM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
Thomas - well said with the key word being preload i.e. axial preload. I like zero, but my machinist always reminds me the consequence of going too far, which includes starting over and I hate going backwards. I have read five to eight pounds is acceptable. At some point the pickup points axial alignments will play into the friction problem. The pickup points on my car are very well aligned and everything went together very nicely. We are going to get some street miles on it next week and then disassemble again for inspection. I will try to get some drop weight numbers.

bunob - I did not record any dimensions. The bores in the control arms were mic'ed individually and the outside diameters of the bushings were turned for a .001 interference fit for each individual bore. We shortened the non-flanged end of the bushing when fitting. We used the original sleeves and fluted them to hold the grease. Delrin is self lubricating so the primary purpose of the grease is to provide a moisture barrier and to keep the bearing surfaces clean.

There are several problems running hard spherical bearings. e.g. moisture, races beat out, grime etc. I built the front suspension on my Cobra with rod ends which bring their own set of problems, but there is no discernible friction and they are very easily swapped in and out. They are dangerous because of the induced bending load thru the threads, but lots of race cars run them. One has to be committed to constant inspection and know bad things can happen. I look forward to the experience.

The Delrin bushings are a compromise of sorts. They will not last like rubber bushings, but they will last much better than spherical bearings. The Cobra is a track car. The Vantage is a street car.

Irish - thanks for setting the record straight. I was hoping one of you guy's would show up with correct part numbers.

IMO the V12VS arms are a great upgrade. The only reason I went to Delrin was for improved track performance and I had a worthless set of arms staring at me. If it proves too harsh, I can easily revert back to the V12 arms.

On headlight tracking - I just removed the actuator arms completely.

Irish - does Aston specify inspection intervals and renew of the GT4 bearings?


x-chr
 
  #204  
Old 07-06-2018, 06:37 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: France
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 0
Phil57DBS is an unknown quantity at this point
Hello at all
Very nice job x-chr
and thanks irish07 for the most stiffer upper arms part numbers.
Please what are now the most stiffer lower arm part numbers ?
I read Vanquish II and S since 2015 have 25% stiffer bushes in rear arms....is it the same for V12V S ?
So I plan to update my beloved DBS 75000kms with its front that understeer and rear that squirms !!
Best
Phil
 
  #205  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:02 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: France
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 0
Phil57DBS is an unknown quantity at this point
add-on :
ready to buy in UK but :
for front upper arms i found 2 numbers part for the same side DG43-3084-AB P and DG43-3084-BA P
(same AB P versus BA P for the other side DG43-3091-__ _)
What does it mean please ?
and what is P ?
thanks for answer
Best
 

Last edited by Phil57DBS; 07-06-2018 at 04:07 PM.
  #206  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:57 PM
AMR248's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 0
AMR248 will become famous soon enough
Do you remember which version of the V3 coilover suspension you ordered? From KWs product listing they are available for
(I) 4.3L Roadster, 10 and 12 mm piston rod thread diameter
(II) 4.7L Coupe, 10 and 12 mm piston rod thread diameter

I think i have to order the 10 mm Version for my 07 V8 Vantage, which was delivered with Dynamic Suspension. Do you know whether the versions vor (I) and (II) differ in length or diameter?

Thanks for helping me
 
  #207  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:27 PM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
AMR - took me a bit I had to find the box. I purchased them from a vendor here and they selected the model. They are very nice on the street end very easy to work with. Jury is still out on track work.



 
  #208  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:36 PM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
On Bushings -

I have several hundred miles on the new bushings and all I can say is WOW! The steering is completely changed. The steering response is now very linear to the throttle response. I am a little stunned how well it works. I find no harshness at all. Turn in and lateral weight transfer in transition just make me smile. It is a blast to drive.

I have no idea how many miles we'll get out of them so they will have to routinely be inspected. We will tear it apart again tomorrow and see how everything looks. If all is good, I will see about getting the drop weights.


chr
 
  #209  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:45 PM
AMR248's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 0
AMR248 will become famous soon enough
Awesome! That is, what i was searching for.
 
  #210  
Old 07-13-2018, 06:50 PM
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Eagle Creek Or
Age: 61
Posts: 358
Rep Power: 17
era2076 is on a distinguished road
So we have some numbers -

LF - 11 lbs
RF - 5.3 lbs
LR - 5.3 lbs
RR - 2 lbs

So the 2 lbs get's no change.

The 5.3's were checked at the chassis to determine which bushing was causing the most friction and we will take .005 out of the shim, re-fit, and re-check.

The 11 lb is bound thru the rear bushing. We'll take .010 out of it and re-fit.

It's an iterative process until we get it where we want it. If we could get them all to 2lb I would be very happy. I have a feeling the squareness of the mounting tabs will dictate where we end up.

chr
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Join 6SpeedOnline
Visit our Sponsors

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.