E46 M3 a dated car?
#46
07-11-2008, 12:34 PM
It's not fair, though I think there are exceptions to this rule, but it's also not necessary. The E46 M3's appearance is dated (meaning that it's possible to tell what time period it was designed in), but it's performance is not.
In real-world usage, the E92 M3 and E46 M3 are so close in performance that I don't see the E92 as being worth the expense of upgrading. Top speed is the (electronically limited) same, real world acceleration by a non-professional driver is so close as to be negligible. We all talk lateral Gs and track times, and about 99% of the production run will sit in commuter traffic its entire life. Indeed, the chief improvements the E92 has over the E46 are the DCT and EDC, which make it a more comfortable commuter as much as they improve its performance.
In real-world usage, the E92 M3 and E46 M3 are so close in performance that I don't see the E92 as being worth the expense of upgrading. Top speed is the (electronically limited) same, real world acceleration by a non-professional driver is so close as to be negligible. We all talk lateral Gs and track times, and about 99% of the production run will sit in commuter traffic its entire life. Indeed, the chief improvements the E92 has over the E46 are the DCT and EDC, which make it a more comfortable commuter as much as they improve its performance.
You can't fault a guy for getting either one of these cars and if you're still tempted to d!ck measure, there's always somebody with something badder and faster. Just enjoy what you got and be happy you're not going hungry.
#49
07-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Time for some reality check from someone who currently owns both (each similarly equipped), 6spd manual, no nav.
e92 >>>>>>>>>> e46.
interior materials quality/design
engine
clutch
looks
performance
luxury
e46 > e92
better cupholders
rear side windows pop out/open
less clearance front wheel wells, "sits" better
photographs better
I still very much like the e46. It is an amazing car, but to say it is better than the e92 is uninformed and likely coming from someone that doesnt own one. I know I had the same argument back in the day, but I did a complete 180 on my opinion the day I test drove one. It'll be on the market in a couple of weeks, just taking care of some paintwork. 04, 27.5k miles, I think I'll be looking for around $30K. LSB over grey.
e92 >>>>>>>>>> e46.
interior materials quality/design
engine
clutch
looks
performance
luxury
e46 > e92
better cupholders
rear side windows pop out/open
less clearance front wheel wells, "sits" better
photographs better
I still very much like the e46. It is an amazing car, but to say it is better than the e92 is uninformed and likely coming from someone that doesnt own one. I know I had the same argument back in the day, but I did a complete 180 on my opinion the day I test drove one. It'll be on the market in a couple of weeks, just taking care of some paintwork. 04, 27.5k miles, I think I'll be looking for around $30K. LSB over grey.
#50
07-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 34
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I forgot to input my opinion lol
I absolutley agree that the perfrmance aspects of the car are somewhat dated. I remember back when it first came out the engineering on that car was genius.
However we look at cars now that are starting to break the 4 second 0-60 mark and the car is somewhat dated.
The design any day ending in "y" will make my head follow it on the road as long as possible.
The car was an icon and gradually is turning into a legend in the European car category.
Just my $0.02
I absolutley agree that the perfrmance aspects of the car are somewhat dated. I remember back when it first came out the engineering on that car was genius.
However we look at cars now that are starting to break the 4 second 0-60 mark and the car is somewhat dated.
The design any day ending in "y" will make my head follow it on the road as long as possible.
The car was an icon and gradually is turning into a legend in the European car category.
Just my $0.02
Last edited by Jonathan Ess; 07-11-2008 at 07:20 PM.
#51
07-11-2008, 10:33 PM
BMW official 0-60 time for e46 m3 is 4.8sec
I can care less for SMG issues. If I'm buying a performance vehicle, manual is the only way to go.
E46 M3 is dated compared to new performance cars, the interior more so than the exterior. However, overall the e46 m3 is a killer car!
I can care less for SMG issues. If I'm buying a performance vehicle, manual is the only way to go.
E46 M3 is dated compared to new performance cars, the interior more so than the exterior. However, overall the e46 m3 is a killer car!
#52
07-12-2008, 12:15 AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 34
Rep Power: 18
Yeah the only thing i absolutely hate about the E46 M3 is the SMG. I would ONLY get it in manual...
However I sometimes don't like full manual at all times (life isn't a race-course if you're going to work in traffic) I just wish SMG was alot better in the E46 M3
However I sometimes don't like full manual at all times (life isn't a race-course if you're going to work in traffic) I just wish SMG was alot better in the E46 M3
#53
07-12-2008, 12:52 AM
Uhh.. tell that to the people at HorsepowerFreaks who are bolting on turbo kits to get 750 hp with no internal upgrades. Granted, these haven't been tested for years and years of road time, but no blow ups yet that I know of. That sounds like a pretty stout motor from the factory to me!
Please, the E46 motor is maxed out stock. 750hp without any internal upgrades is mechanical suicide. Besides, the car is less fun in my opinion with 750hp. It's not a straight line rocket like a TT or Viper. It's a go-cart feeling coupe with balance.
Quality improved 5 fold in the BMW's following the last generation, 3, 5, 7, X, and M models.
#55
07-12-2008, 10:10 AM
Are those the same guys posting about their engines also blowing up?
Please, the E46 motor is maxed out stock. 750hp without any internal upgrades is mechanical suicide. Besides, the car is less fun in my opinion with 750hp. It's not a straight line rocket like a TT or Viper. It's a go-cart feeling coupe with balance.
Do you drive a E46 by any chance?
Quality improved 5 fold in the BMW's following the last generation, 3, 5, 7, X, and M models.
Please, the E46 motor is maxed out stock. 750hp without any internal upgrades is mechanical suicide. Besides, the car is less fun in my opinion with 750hp. It's not a straight line rocket like a TT or Viper. It's a go-cart feeling coupe with balance.
Do you drive a E46 by any chance?
Quality improved 5 fold in the BMW's following the last generation, 3, 5, 7, X, and M models.
#56
07-12-2008, 10:21 AM
Eh - its like religion. Too many opinions and everything thinks they are right. 
If you like you like it. If not move on....
For those who say they wish the SMG was better - have you driven a better SMG? IF you are referring to DCT, DSG, PDK, etc. they are different.
There are many proven F/I kits that have proven the motor stock is not MAXED out. Unless you have an engineering degree and can tell me that know more than what you read about it please refrain from making comments about something you have no clue about. I do not make comments like that because I do not know for sure. I do know VF, AA, HPF have proven the engines do not mind some F/I.
I personally think the 335I Coupe is a better design asthetically than the E92 //M.
The E46 still has a better overall design IMHO. Quality always gets better year after year so to make that comparison is silly. But better quality doesn't lead to better design. The E46 to E92 is a great example. There are aspects from both that each could use to make a great overall compromise. I think the Audi S5 is what the E92 //M should have looked like. It has a lot of the lines of the E92 Coupes but with a little more aggressive look and feel. The AUDI interiors is what other car manufacturers should learn from. They make some of the best interior in the market.
Of course all of this is my opinion and we know that opinions are like a-holes...they all stink... some more than others
If you like you like it. If not move on....
For those who say they wish the SMG was better - have you driven a better SMG? IF you are referring to DCT, DSG, PDK, etc. they are different.
There are many proven F/I kits that have proven the motor stock is not MAXED out. Unless you have an engineering degree and can tell me that know more than what you read about it please refrain from making comments about something you have no clue about. I do not make comments like that because I do not know for sure. I do know VF, AA, HPF have proven the engines do not mind some F/I.
I personally think the 335I Coupe is a better design asthetically than the E92 //M.
The E46 still has a better overall design IMHO. Quality always gets better year after year so to make that comparison is silly. But better quality doesn't lead to better design. The E46 to E92 is a great example. There are aspects from both that each could use to make a great overall compromise. I think the Audi S5 is what the E92 //M should have looked like. It has a lot of the lines of the E92 Coupes but with a little more aggressive look and feel. The AUDI interiors is what other car manufacturers should learn from. They make some of the best interior in the market.
Of course all of this is my opinion and we know that opinions are like a-holes...they all stink... some more than others
#57
07-12-2008, 10:38 AM
Eh - its like religion. Too many opinions and everything thinks they are right.
If you like you like it. If not move on....
For those who say they wish the SMG was better - have you driven a better SMG? IF you are referring to DCT, DSG, PDK, etc. they are different.
There are many proven F/I kits that have proven the motor stock is not MAXED out. Unless you have an engineering degree and can tell me that know more than what you read about it please refrain from making comments about something you have no clue about. I do not make comments like that because I do not know for sure. I do know VF, AA, HPF have proven the engines do not mind some F/I.
I personally think the 335I Coupe is a better design asthetically than the E92 //M.
The E46 still has a better overall design IMHO. Quality always gets better year after year so to make that comparison is silly. But better quality doesn't lead to better design. The E46 to E92 is a great example. There are aspects from both that each could use to make a great overall compromise. I think the Audi S5 is what the E92 //M should have looked like. It has a lot of the lines of the E92 Coupes but with a little more aggressive look and feel. The AUDI interiors is what other car manufacturers should learn from. They make some of the best interior in the market.
Of course all of this is my opinion and we know that opinions are like a-holes...they all stink... some more than others
If you like you like it. If not move on....
For those who say they wish the SMG was better - have you driven a better SMG? IF you are referring to DCT, DSG, PDK, etc. they are different.
There are many proven F/I kits that have proven the motor stock is not MAXED out. Unless you have an engineering degree and can tell me that know more than what you read about it please refrain from making comments about something you have no clue about. I do not make comments like that because I do not know for sure. I do know VF, AA, HPF have proven the engines do not mind some F/I.
I personally think the 335I Coupe is a better design asthetically than the E92 //M.
The E46 still has a better overall design IMHO. Quality always gets better year after year so to make that comparison is silly. But better quality doesn't lead to better design. The E46 to E92 is a great example. There are aspects from both that each could use to make a great overall compromise. I think the Audi S5 is what the E92 //M should have looked like. It has a lot of the lines of the E92 Coupes but with a little more aggressive look and feel. The AUDI interiors is what other car manufacturers should learn from. They make some of the best interior in the market.
Of course all of this is my opinion and we know that opinions are like a-holes...they all stink... some more than others
The e46 m3 is maxxed out in NA form, but adding FI changes the car completely and thus maxxed out becomes a moot point because you can FI ANY NA motor and say its not maxed out.
I agree the 335 is a cleaner design than the e9X m3, and with the m tech kit, the 335 is great too.
the s5 is a gorgeous car and the interior is much better design and quality than ANY bmw or mercedes. audi in general is up there with Porsche, Ferrari, etc.
#58
07-12-2008, 11:53 AM
The e92 M3 is going for about 70K around here. Result 415 crank hp.
So what are your thoughts on spending gobs of money for less performance?
Not to mention the e92 is heavier than the e46.
Not trying to be a d1ck here just a friendly observation.
Back on topic...
Do I think it looks dated? By itself...no. Next to an E92..yes. However aesthetically the e46 is more pleasing. It looks more proportionally balanced . The rear looks just as powerful as the front. This however is not the case with the E92. However I have seen some examples with a CSL style trunklid and it looked much better.
I think the "classicness" of the M3 skips a generation.
E30 = classic
E36 = good car but not a classic
E46 = classic
E92 = good car but not a classic
Sorry for the long post. As usual these are just my opinions.
What is not an opinion is that a stock m3 coupe does not go 0-60 in 4.4.
And I think somewhere he said the m3 vert does it in 5.8.
LOL. 350 lbs difference equals 1.4 second difference?!
Zowie! I think a blatant lack of knowledge coupled with delusions of grandeur regarding one's own car should be a bannable offense.
#59
07-12-2008, 12:10 PM
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Of all the new bmw's, the m3 is the best looking imo. I really dislike the 5 series and am hot/cold on the 6.
E46, like the E39 is dated but classic and will always hold an appeal for its quality and lasting desingn. Think about an 88 M6, it still holds a very fine road presence. My 74 3.0csi still turns heads. They are classics, and so will the e46 be.
My former Dinan S2, ala Hbomb, beauty.
E46, like the E39 is dated but classic and will always hold an appeal for its quality and lasting desingn. Think about an 88 M6, it still holds a very fine road presence. My 74 3.0csi still turns heads. They are classics, and so will the e46 be.
My former Dinan S2, ala Hbomb, beauty.
