Big call, the RS4 is too heavy and under braked (weight comparative) to be a compeditive track car. They had a wagon and sedan out at the Burrows Day a couple of weeks back here at Eastern Creek and they got their ***** handed to them by the Porka's and M3's on the day.

Although that said, its not designed as a track car. There are better bases to begin with if you want to go tracking it. Horses for courses, I know 2 people with the new RS4's. One had the old RS4 Wagon, I'm sure they wouldn't swap for an M and I wouldn't swap for an RS4. Competition breeds innovation and growth IMO

 

no offense taken
we really need to stop criticizing these car's in such a negative way
they are made for different driver, and for different purposes..

they're great, the bmw and audi...
the benz on the other hand is still a piece of crap no matter how big and how much HP the engine has..

 

Exactly.

Different strokes for different folks. You buy a BMW if you are a poseur weird-in-the-head type ****** who doesn't know any better and you buy an Audi if you're awesome. Simple as that.



..And that I whole-heartedly agree on without even as much as a hint of sarcasm because that IS true.

 

The RS4 is a great, no amazing car. I spent the day throwing 1 to various meetings. It has a Wonderful engine that is damm easy to drive. The steering has amazing feedback for an Audi and a 4-wheel drive car. I tend to find Audi steering very wooden, but the RS4 is communicative and nimble, you can feel the moment the front wheels start to push and loose grip. And that noise......

The interior is nice enough, the seats superb ( its got the proper Recaros ) and i for one love the dimpled steering wheel.

But.... to me it lacks emotion. I think that is the right word, it just seems like a clinical german car. Its easy to drive fast, comfortable ( estate ) but it doesn't have any little nuances which make driving a car like that, REALLY DRIVING a car like that. I hop back into the M3, get it toey through an intersection, get it unsettled under hard acceleration, and it feels as if i am really driving, you feel alot more connected to the road and alot more aware. I prefer my cars to be like that, more focused and hard-****.

The RS4 is a awesome car. Different strokes for different folks.

* but if you get an RS4 cabriolet, you deserve to be shot.

 

i agree on the rs4 cabriolet
definately need to get shot, but not with bullets

you need to be shot with lip stick

 

so i drove my friend to the airport the other day in his car cuz i couldt fit his luggage in the vert. he drives a 99 mazda protege with about 150k miles on it. stick. fairly good condition all things considered.

let's put it this way, the difference between an rs4 and an m3 would be measured in microns as compared to the difference between those cars and the protege. so why dont we all first stop for a second and count our blessings.


now that i got that off my chest, i dont know why a bunch of you guys are getting so excited about how someone is making judgments based on cars they have not driven. come on, look at the original thread comparo, only 1 car exists at the moment... so this is all in good discussion and fun.

that said, m3 me please. and this thread is awfully similar and has taken the same turn as another thread from like 2 weeks ago.

oh, and the reason i do not want an RS4 even though i can appreciate the car is because it is 4 wheel drive and weights as much as an e39 m5. if i lived in canada or some small town where it snowed a lot, it will definitely be a choice. where i live, i dont need 4wheel drive and see no reason to complicate things, especially the steering of a car.

 

RS4, too heavy? Yeah for sure.
RS4, underbraked? uh... 8 piston in front, 4 piston in rear. Same brakes as the gallardo. How is it underbraked?

 

Comparative to its weight dude to be a compeditive track car I said! Although I suppose since they had predominatly GT3's, TT's, Ferarri's and an assortment of Lambo's out on the day including an LP640 it's little wonder it wasn't on the pace

 

Umm, an RS4 will out-brake a 997 GT3 so I am a little confused? The GT3 goes from 60-0 in a distance of 119ft while the RS4 only takes a distance of 107ft to complete this task. So if you say that a RS4 in underbraked for a track car, I would say that most every street legal car is also underbraked since you cannot run full slicks on the street. The Lotus Elise is listed as 109ft for the same distance. However, the Porsche Carrera GT outbraked it with a distance of 106ft.

I am just confused on why you think that the RS4 is "underbraked."

I have presented my fact to support my opinion, will you please do the same.

 

dude, theres no ****ing way an rs4 is outbraking a gt3. youre off by 20 gt. the 997 GT3 brakes 60-0 in 99 ****ing feet! get your facts straight. so how exactly is an rs4 going to out brake a gt3? it doesnt just out brake it, it demolishes it in that catagory, as well as every other one.

TEST DATA ACCELERATION TO MPH 0-30 1.5 sec 0-40 2.1 0-50 2.9 0-60 3.8 0-70 4.8 0-80 5.9 0-90 7.4 0-100 8.9 PASSING 45-65 MPH 1.9 sec QUARTER MILE 12.1 @ 117.8 mph BRAKING 60-0 MPH 99 ft LATERAL ACCELERATION 1.02 g (avg) MT FIGURE EIGHT 24.2 sec @ 0.81 g (avg) TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 2500 rpm

 

http://www.velocity-club.com/vehicles/apex_GT3.cfm

Here is my source. The numbers that you show make me think that the GT3 was equipped with R-Compounds or possibly the optional Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, which are very close and connot be used for every day driving. I believe that the data from my source is based on the GT3 having the factory Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, which makes it a fair comparison since these are the same tires the RS4 has.

Most test that I am seeing are putting the GT3 around 102-104ft while the RS4 is averaging about 110ft.

The problem with porsches is that they have so much weight so far back that they do not have good weight distribution for braking where most of the weight of the vehicle is transferred forward. The audi, with a heavy V-8 over the front axle has more grip up front. Remember that the maximus friction is figured by the coefficient of friction between the rubber tire and the road times the Y vector of the mass. Therefore, the force of friction can be greater on the Audi since the limiting factor here is the tires, not the brakes.

However, a greater force is required to bring the audi to a stop as it has more kenetic energy as the GT3 at the same speed, KE=V^2*M where M equals mass, V equals velocity, and KE equals kenetic energy. I hope this helps explain why the much heavier audi is able to acheive similar braking thanks for more grip up front due to larger front tires and more weight over these tires.

Regardless, it is still, I think at least, incorrect to assume the the RS4 is underbraked.

I apologize for the physics lesson if i bored anyone!!

 

So now your saying a RS4 out brakes a GT3 in one post and in the 2nd concede it doesn't? I'm a little confused here.

I said it was underbraked for a track car compared to its weight. I still stand by it as I saw first hand at a track day how they compared. I know 2 people with RS4's and the guy who was telling me it wasn't a good track car has a 993TT and 996 GT3RS.

Obviously you don't want all of the weight at the front of the car, especially in a track car. There's more validity for having the engine rear or mid mounted than at the front as I'm sure you know anyway...

I never said it wasn't a kick **** car, I said it was underbraked compared to its weight.

In one post your saying the GT3 takes 119 ft, in the others your saying the data your seeing is showing 103 ft odd. Another poster also provided data that it can pull up in sub 100ft.

I'd check your data, as the link you've provided as the basis of your arguement shows a Cayman S pulling up faster than a GT3? Not likely. I also doubt the validity that it takes 130 ft for a 360 to pull up in the same distance as well. (times from your link)

 

It's REALLY funny to hear BMW guys talk about Audis being underbraked... Single-piston sliding calipers on the M5?

 

honestly man, no offense but you should really think your posts through when presenting hard data like that. your first post says that a gt3 brakes in 119 ft and the rs4 in 107, but NOW youre saying youre finding that the GT3 brakes in 102-104 and the rs4 in 110 so either you just put in numbers and then found real ones or just flat out lied. either way, we know the rs4 does not outbrake a GT3. in fact, it doesnt outbrake a 997S or boxster s either. 997S does it in 108 ft and boxster s in 107. so generally speaking, prob the only P car the rs4 can outbrake in a cayenne.

 

E60 M5 has twin-piston, Chris. But, yea... BMW brakes do suck. There was an article about M3 CSL owners club in UK where the editor of the magazine asked the owners what's their first upgrade to the car (M3 CSL) since everyone glorified the car as the best of out the box. And, everyone's answer was "AP Racing" brake upgrade. BMW's braking department should get more $$$.