997.2 Intercoolers - Wow!
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I did various tests on our 3.5s and 4.5s for years now... Heck I was the first one to do a 4.5 on my own car and do 1000whp 6 years ago... with that said, I can make ICs look better or worse dependent on how I heat them up( even by accident lol) prior to the run.. thus hotter temps outside... or slight heartsoak at idle ( will increase lets say 6 degree C) and directly alter the intake temp at the end of the run.... thus , I really beg to differ on all these tests guys do on different set ups, different temps, humidity,and mind you months apart... this goes for all IC testing not just this particular situation.... I try to do it within 2 hours apart... same car same conditions.... nothing else changing...
WIth that said, I do think that gt2rs are a great improvement over oem and run well with bar n plate 3.5s at 1.2 bar on entry level set ups...
WIth that said, I do think that gt2rs are a great improvement over oem and run well with bar n plate 3.5s at 1.2 bar on entry level set ups...
Its great that Earl has discovered an inexpensive alternative for lightly modded cars...I think we can all agree that the 997.2 ICs are the way to go.
But when you start making moderate and above power, you are being penny wise and pound foolish.
Not to long ago a board member bought into the argument that larger ICs and most other (proven) aftermarket upgrades were primarily scams to make money from. His philosophy has not worked out well.
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Champion uses Garrett cores, nice coolers. Would love to see a more affordable Garrett cooler on the P market.
Last edited by earl3; Aug 19, 2012 at 02:16 PM.
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Earl, I see you removed the post where you said the steady IATs were impossible. Akram of Moterwerks was with me that day in the passenger seat holding the computer. We ran from his shop, about 10 miles from 59 and 99 and back. You can ask him. He kept checking the computer to be sure, I was amazed myself, but the #s barely budged.
Last edited by Dr_jitsu; Aug 19, 2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Earl, I see you removed the post where you said the steady IATs were impossible. Akram of Moterwerks was with me that day in the passenger seat holding the computer. We ran from his shop, about 10 miles from 59 and 99 and back. You can ask him. He kept checking the computer to be sure, I was amazed myself, but the #s barely budged.
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Protomotive...I think they were the 5 inchers (although it may be 4.5, can't remember for sure).
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Steady IAT's are not impossible, but rarely observed (especially for these cars I imagine.) I've seen several front mount intercooled cars with thick cores and efficient radiator/fan setups stay steady as well.
Little different story with a 911, but it's possible I suppose.
Little different story with a 911, but it's possible I suppose.
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I absolutely believe this is possible with proto coolers. Todd K seems to have lots of little trade secrets which is only fair since he has been around this stuff in big hp apps longer than most if not all other tuners. Still, would have been nice to see datalogs. Chris(Deepblue) has those IC's along with the entire proto build and it is one nice ride. What impresses me even more is proto exhaust which no one ever talks about. Chris' car sounds so good, not overly loud, but loud enough. And it obviously is designed for big power. Quality all around
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Prche951, I've only seen one set of logs from the 5" TPC/Proto coolers (from earlier in this thread), the rest of the data I've spent hours trying to find is anecdotal (IATs didn't budge, 3 car lengths difference, etc). The following was from a UK car running 20g's at 1.5-1.6 bar up to over 200mph at Bruntingthorpe. He claimed 800hp but the acceleration indicates high 600s, but this was through a tip and beating on the car pretty hard throughout the day so who knows.
Note the IAT gets to 40C over ambient and never stops climbing -to be fair, this car was running fenderwell intakes which rob the ICs of some air.
I could see minimal temp changes if you were out doing 5-6 second 60-130 pulls on public roads.
The original post for posterity:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3012321
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...-retrofit.html
Note the IAT gets to 40C over ambient and never stops climbing -to be fair, this car was running fenderwell intakes which rob the ICs of some air.
I could see minimal temp changes if you were out doing 5-6 second 60-130 pulls on public roads.
The original post for posterity:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3012321
Originally Posted by carmstrongLS1
Where are the good 993 TT intercoolers these days????................. waiting.... still waiting.... LOL. Serious question though.
Last edited by earl3; Aug 26, 2012 at 01:39 PM.
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interesting data.
I think that is a good point. But honestly, it is easy to heat soak IC's with inadequate cooling on a hot day. Even a warm day with improperly placed fans can show horrible IAT's. And this would not be indicative of what happens on the road.
Earl, do you have pics of how fans were placed in position for cooling? I did not see that or a video. I have looked at vids on line and some people put fans through vents in back, others put fans into ducts and others take the rear bumper cover off. Just wondering what the best ways are and I am sure that all three give different results.
I think that is a good point. But honestly, it is easy to heat soak IC's with inadequate cooling on a hot day. Even a warm day with improperly placed fans can show horrible IAT's. And this would not be indicative of what happens on the road.
Earl, do you have pics of how fans were placed in position for cooling? I did not see that or a video. I have looked at vids on line and some people put fans through vents in back, others put fans into ducts and others take the rear bumper cover off. Just wondering what the best ways are and I am sure that all three give different results.
Last edited by Prche951; Aug 26, 2012 at 03:31 PM.
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interesting data.
I think that is a good point. But honestly, it is easy to heat soak IC's with inadequate cooling on a hot day. Even a warm day with improperly placed fans can show horrible IAT's. And this would not be indicative of what happens on the road.
Earl, do you have pics of how fans were placed in position for cooling? I did not see that or a video. I have looked at vids on line and some people put fans through vents in back, others put fans into ducts and others take the rear bumper cover off. Just wondering what the best ways are and I am sure that all three give different results.
I think that is a good point. But honestly, it is easy to heat soak IC's with inadequate cooling on a hot day. Even a warm day with improperly placed fans can show horrible IAT's. And this would not be indicative of what happens on the road.
Earl, do you have pics of how fans were placed in position for cooling? I did not see that or a video. I have looked at vids on line and some people put fans through vents in back, others put fans into ducts and others take the rear bumper cover off. Just wondering what the best ways are and I am sure that all three give different results.
The thing that really chapped my rear was several years ago when a company posted pics of their 5" coolers being installed on a new 997.2 and I inquired about purchasing the take-off stock coolers for testing...and I quote "You wouldnt see any gain over the stock .1 coolers. Same core just different dimensions". Oops.
Last edited by earl3; Aug 26, 2012 at 04:23 PM.
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On another note, sneak preview of the 16 row "prototype" ICs. The theory is that the 16 rows add 30% more surface area for cooling over a 12 row cooler and 15% more over a 14 row. As a tradeoff, there is now less room for the external fins so to help counter that, the external fin density was increased to 15-16 fpi (vs the typical 10-12) with each fin row staggered from the previous. These suckers are heavy!
Last edited by earl3; Aug 26, 2012 at 04:16 PM.