997.2 Intercoolers - Wow!
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The IC Bake Off
Well,
I just purchased the GT2RS Intercoolers and Forge hoses after reading this entire thread, others in this forum, talking to several members, and gleaning as much as data was available from mfrs.
For the hoses, I checked multiple references on the Forge hoses, which also include the F-hose which I wanted to replace and got thumbs up, and they were on sale at ECS, so that was pretty easy.
For the IC's I started with what people on this forum use and like, while still being relatively affordable (i.e., EVOMS were a bit too pricey for me). On the short list were (all metal end tanks except for the GT2RS):
1.) Forge
2.) AWE
3.) 997.2 GT2RS
4.) 911 Tuning
5.) ETS 16 rows
In the end, what it came down to for me is that the GT2RS ICs are at least $800 less expensive, AND have polymer end tanks. I am putting 563 AWHP on a Mustang Dyno and running 1.4 bar. At that power level, I am not overly worried about the endtanks not being able to take the pressure as the 997.2 GT2RS runs 1.5 bar out of the factory. Also, my main use for the car is track, so IATs and heat sink recovery times are critical factors for me, and I think that the polymer end tanks will recover more quickly than metal end tanks, and at least the Earl data vs ETS lends some credibility to that theory. If I were running more HP/boost or if I wanted these for a street application where heat sink recovery is less important, I would have paid up and gotten one of the others on the list so as to completely eliminate the worry about end tank popoff problems, probably the ETS 16s as I see Earls testing data as objective and credible.
Finally, since I know others will struggle with this decision, here's the IAT data I found (there is also data on pressure drop, but for simplicity sake, I'll focus on IAT). Note that not all IAT data is the same as some providers do not explain their methods or the mods done on the cars, so it really is hard to compare with confidence. In part that's why I went with the GT2RS as I see Earls tests as objective and credible.
Forge: claims IAT drop vs stock at peak of 24.5 degrees C http://www.forgemotorsport.com/conte...oduct=FMINT996 (oddly though it doesn't look like the supplier of the data Regal Autosports sells them anymore, which doesn't help with seemingly credible data).
AWE: claims IAT drop vs stock at 5500rpms ~25 degrees C: http://www.awe-tuning.com/awe-996ttic
997.2 GT2RS: Earls data suggests 17-20 degrees C drop. NOTE ALSO how much more thorough and open Earl is in his testing methods and how the lines are not perfectly straight, which seems very real world to me. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3008878 and here https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ers-wow-2.html
911Tuning: Credible data and lots of it suggests as much as 21 degrees C: http://www.911tuning.com/996-Turbo/I...ynographs#tabs
ETS: Not tested vs stock but against GT2RS and they seem to peak at 6 degrees lower that GT2RS in short tests https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7-2-gt2rs.html
Good luck in sorting though all of this. In the end, I do think all of the above products are serious upgrades to stock, so it's a matter of which is a little better than the next in this group and what matters most to you, i.e., money, IAT, pressure drop or heat sink recovery, and whether you think you are going to run enough HP to create popoff concerns.
I just purchased the GT2RS Intercoolers and Forge hoses after reading this entire thread, others in this forum, talking to several members, and gleaning as much as data was available from mfrs.
For the hoses, I checked multiple references on the Forge hoses, which also include the F-hose which I wanted to replace and got thumbs up, and they were on sale at ECS, so that was pretty easy.
For the IC's I started with what people on this forum use and like, while still being relatively affordable (i.e., EVOMS were a bit too pricey for me). On the short list were (all metal end tanks except for the GT2RS):
1.) Forge
2.) AWE
3.) 997.2 GT2RS
4.) 911 Tuning
5.) ETS 16 rows
In the end, what it came down to for me is that the GT2RS ICs are at least $800 less expensive, AND have polymer end tanks. I am putting 563 AWHP on a Mustang Dyno and running 1.4 bar. At that power level, I am not overly worried about the endtanks not being able to take the pressure as the 997.2 GT2RS runs 1.5 bar out of the factory. Also, my main use for the car is track, so IATs and heat sink recovery times are critical factors for me, and I think that the polymer end tanks will recover more quickly than metal end tanks, and at least the Earl data vs ETS lends some credibility to that theory. If I were running more HP/boost or if I wanted these for a street application where heat sink recovery is less important, I would have paid up and gotten one of the others on the list so as to completely eliminate the worry about end tank popoff problems, probably the ETS 16s as I see Earls testing data as objective and credible.
Finally, since I know others will struggle with this decision, here's the IAT data I found (there is also data on pressure drop, but for simplicity sake, I'll focus on IAT). Note that not all IAT data is the same as some providers do not explain their methods or the mods done on the cars, so it really is hard to compare with confidence. In part that's why I went with the GT2RS as I see Earls tests as objective and credible.
Forge: claims IAT drop vs stock at peak of 24.5 degrees C http://www.forgemotorsport.com/conte...oduct=FMINT996 (oddly though it doesn't look like the supplier of the data Regal Autosports sells them anymore, which doesn't help with seemingly credible data).
AWE: claims IAT drop vs stock at 5500rpms ~25 degrees C: http://www.awe-tuning.com/awe-996ttic
997.2 GT2RS: Earls data suggests 17-20 degrees C drop. NOTE ALSO how much more thorough and open Earl is in his testing methods and how the lines are not perfectly straight, which seems very real world to me. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3008878 and here https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ers-wow-2.html
911Tuning: Credible data and lots of it suggests as much as 21 degrees C: http://www.911tuning.com/996-Turbo/I...ynographs#tabs
ETS: Not tested vs stock but against GT2RS and they seem to peak at 6 degrees lower that GT2RS in short tests https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7-2-gt2rs.html
Good luck in sorting though all of this. In the end, I do think all of the above products are serious upgrades to stock, so it's a matter of which is a little better than the next in this group and what matters most to you, i.e., money, IAT, pressure drop or heat sink recovery, and whether you think you are going to run enough HP to create popoff concerns.
Last edited by joe731; Jan 3, 2013 at 06:55 PM.
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I would like to understand, how an I/C behaves in terms of pressure loss, if you increase the flow. I think the table with 1 and 2 bar loss is not enough to calculate. Do you have more recorded steps in between?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/87731073@N06/8357480429/http://www.flickr.com/photos/87731073@N06/8357480429/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/87731073@N06/, on Flickr
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Gents,
I saw that member pete95zhn has been putting the heat to a relatively quick epoxy-based (Araldite 2011) solution for the end tank separation issues that some have had. Judging from his post, it's been to the road course and the writeup is posted on renntrack -no guarantees/use at your own risk of course as it may void any existing parts warranty if you bought them new. Hopefully he'll post it up here. One thing to check for if you're "in there": the crimps from the factory crimping machine are not always fully flat against the end tank so inspect the tabs around each tank and if they're not all the way flat with the tank, crimp each tab individually and make a good flat contact on the tank (I've used channel lock pliers wrapped with a rag -don't over-do it on crimping pressure though).
Recently I've heard some odd comments about the "plastic" end tanks causing more heat soak. Some truth: The end tanks are made from PA66-GF30 polymer with a coefficient of thermal conductivity 477 times less than that of aluminum. With the inlet tank about 6 inches from a 1000+ degree turbine housing, this is a good thing for minimizing convective heat transfer from the turbine housing to the inlet tank and ultimately into the core. In other words, those horrible plastic end tanks actually help keep the heat where it should be so that the ambient air can convect heat away. I attribute this as one of the reasons the .2's recovered quicker than my ETS coolers (and why they are significantly lighter). The disadvantage to polymer tanks is the way they are attached from the factory, which in some cases, has led to separation of the inlet tank (or the gasket getting pushed out). Hopefully that's a thing of the past now if you're willing to do a little DIY.
This will probably be my last post on the subject, but am always happy to try and answer questions. Hard to believe it's been over 2 1/2 years since this thread started. Thanks for the support & sharing of info, even from the naysayers who added some valuable spice to the discussion. Even at ~$1360 from Porsche new, I think they're still a steal
Keep the shiny side up!
I saw that member pete95zhn has been putting the heat to a relatively quick epoxy-based (Araldite 2011) solution for the end tank separation issues that some have had. Judging from his post, it's been to the road course and the writeup is posted on renntrack -no guarantees/use at your own risk of course as it may void any existing parts warranty if you bought them new. Hopefully he'll post it up here. One thing to check for if you're "in there": the crimps from the factory crimping machine are not always fully flat against the end tank so inspect the tabs around each tank and if they're not all the way flat with the tank, crimp each tab individually and make a good flat contact on the tank (I've used channel lock pliers wrapped with a rag -don't over-do it on crimping pressure though).
Recently I've heard some odd comments about the "plastic" end tanks causing more heat soak. Some truth: The end tanks are made from PA66-GF30 polymer with a coefficient of thermal conductivity 477 times less than that of aluminum. With the inlet tank about 6 inches from a 1000+ degree turbine housing, this is a good thing for minimizing convective heat transfer from the turbine housing to the inlet tank and ultimately into the core. In other words, those horrible plastic end tanks actually help keep the heat where it should be so that the ambient air can convect heat away. I attribute this as one of the reasons the .2's recovered quicker than my ETS coolers (and why they are significantly lighter). The disadvantage to polymer tanks is the way they are attached from the factory, which in some cases, has led to separation of the inlet tank (or the gasket getting pushed out). Hopefully that's a thing of the past now if you're willing to do a little DIY.
This will probably be my last post on the subject, but am always happy to try and answer questions. Hard to believe it's been over 2 1/2 years since this thread started. Thanks for the support & sharing of info, even from the naysayers who added some valuable spice to the discussion. Even at ~$1360 from Porsche new, I think they're still a steal
Keep the shiny side up!
Last edited by earl3; Jun 12, 2013 at 11:33 PM.
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http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-...t-p-23598.html
Coming soon to the 996TT platform! you can thank me later
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From: San Jose, CA
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Installed mine and have ran two days at Laguna Seca. I'm just running flashed K16, but power was great and held up the entire 30min sessions without heat soak and timing pulls.
My skills are improving as well- but was able to beat my best times and finished with a 1:40.82 later in the day. So as most people had their fastest times late morning mine just kept improving all day.
Great mod!
My skills are improving as well- but was able to beat my best times and finished with a 1:40.82 later in the day. So as most people had their fastest times late morning mine just kept improving all day.
Great mod!
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You know you are absolutely right & with impeccable timing I might add. I have found the ultimate dyno queen/drag racing intercooler:
http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-...t-p-23598.html
Coming soon to the 996TT platform! you can thank me later
http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-...t-p-23598.html
Coming soon to the 996TT platform! you can thank me later
I'm doing mine next week. I may be giving you a call!
Wow! What absolutely sold me is the description:
this revolutionary, bleeding edge, innovative, paradigm shifting, amazeballs, ultra-super-crazy, hella good product
I need hella good parts on my hella good car.
Go for it 996tt550!
this revolutionary, bleeding edge, innovative, paradigm shifting, amazeballs, ultra-super-crazy, hella good product
I need hella good parts on my hella good car.
Go for it 996tt550!
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034 does know their Audis though. When I picked up my 6TT they were the only folks in the area that could EPL flash. It took them a few attempts and calls back to Tony but they figured it out. With an S4 it was a 5min job.
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Wow- $10k for ICs on a car that is worth ~$10k... At least that is all I was able to sell mine for 5 years ago.
034 does know their Audis though. When I picked up my 6TT they were the only folks in the area that could EPL flash. It took them a few attempts and calls back to Tony but they figured it out. With an S4 it was a 5min job.
034 does know their Audis though. When I picked up my 6TT they were the only folks in the area that could EPL flash. It took them a few attempts and calls back to Tony but they figured it out. With an S4 it was a 5min job.
lol @ everyone being all hot and bothered by that 034 link...
as if the description didnt give it away this certainly did...
"This product was added to our catalog on Monday 01 April, 2013."
as if the description didnt give it away this certainly did...
"This product was added to our catalog on Monday 01 April, 2013."