800 hp on K16 Billets?
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,677
From: London (UK)
Rep Power: 156
This is a valid point and a fair opinion in my eyes.
Randy is not saying AMS are the worst tuner not at all!
Randy here is merely stating they have done well in the past so just because they bring out new products to the Porsche community, it does not mean they do what they say on the tin!
Turbocharger's can only flow so much air before they hit a brick wall.
Also the bottom line is if someone does not question what the hell is going on if something seems a bit fishy or suspect then who is on our side to regulate what tuners sell to us?
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
How is this virus of a thread still going days later? Martin, honestly you have nothing less to prove to anyone. People are trolling trying to get a reaction, clearly there's no one here who has had a bad experience with AMS work.
All of this discussion is about the ad so let's actually look at the two components:
"Bolt-on turbo's capable of 800 hp while retaining stock spool up! Quicker spool and power on par or exceeding the K24/18G"
Note it says capable of, not "producing 800 hp". This is similar to Nissan saying the car GT-R is capable of 0-60 in 2.7s. If you go out on any given day, the time will vary depending on temperature, traction surface, quality of the tires, life in the cars fluids etc etc.
Are we expecting Nissan to produce an add saying "0-60 in 2.7 seconds if you're lucky but probably more consistently in the low threes!". Nope cause damn it all I want to tell people my car can do it in the mid to high twos, that's part of what I'm paying for.
The second part is the clarification portion:
"Estimated horsepower output
550-580 hp / 570-600 lb/ft of torque on pump gas
600-630 hp / 660-690 lb/ft of torque with optional AMS Fuel Upgrade Kit
660-690 hp / 750-780 lb/ft of torque on race gas.
800 hp Capable with supporting modifications (AMS intake pipes, AMS intercooler upgrade, etc...)"
Clearly the power output is Estimated. It also leads with 550-580 on pump gas, then if you purchase more you can get up into the 600-630 range. Now if you're ready to throw in some race gas you can get it up to 660-690 hp, not bad. Now assuming you would like to cause your accountant more stress you can then build up further to a car capable of 800 hp. Capable of again is not stating a guarantee every day.
I love 6SpeedOnline, I stop by a dozen times a day to read things see what people are doing etc. I've been impressed with the community. I only recently became a Porsche owner, previously I owned an Evo X then an e46 M3. Those forums were filled with people name calling, trolling, bad mouthing respected vendors and making up BS stories about making tens of thousands of dollars a day and being to cool for school etc etc. It's disturbing that such a great community is degrading like this for no reason than they intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted an ad.
Martin / Markski,
I get that you guys have had issues in the past. And for whatever reason it keeps coming up in different threads (I've seen it a few times now). Remember Pepsi compares themselves to Coke because Coke is the big boy. Coke doesn't compare itself to Pepsi.
As a potential buyer with some assemblance of financial wherewithal and a love burning the liquid dinos this is turning me off both companies. Can we not just let this issue die and focus on business? The points have all been made.
All of this discussion is about the ad so let's actually look at the two components:
"Bolt-on turbo's capable of 800 hp while retaining stock spool up! Quicker spool and power on par or exceeding the K24/18G"
Note it says capable of, not "producing 800 hp". This is similar to Nissan saying the car GT-R is capable of 0-60 in 2.7s. If you go out on any given day, the time will vary depending on temperature, traction surface, quality of the tires, life in the cars fluids etc etc.
Are we expecting Nissan to produce an add saying "0-60 in 2.7 seconds if you're lucky but probably more consistently in the low threes!". Nope cause damn it all I want to tell people my car can do it in the mid to high twos, that's part of what I'm paying for.
The second part is the clarification portion:
"Estimated horsepower output
550-580 hp / 570-600 lb/ft of torque on pump gas
600-630 hp / 660-690 lb/ft of torque with optional AMS Fuel Upgrade Kit
660-690 hp / 750-780 lb/ft of torque on race gas.
800 hp Capable with supporting modifications (AMS intake pipes, AMS intercooler upgrade, etc...)"
Clearly the power output is Estimated. It also leads with 550-580 on pump gas, then if you purchase more you can get up into the 600-630 range. Now if you're ready to throw in some race gas you can get it up to 660-690 hp, not bad. Now assuming you would like to cause your accountant more stress you can then build up further to a car capable of 800 hp. Capable of again is not stating a guarantee every day.
I love 6SpeedOnline, I stop by a dozen times a day to read things see what people are doing etc. I've been impressed with the community. I only recently became a Porsche owner, previously I owned an Evo X then an e46 M3. Those forums were filled with people name calling, trolling, bad mouthing respected vendors and making up BS stories about making tens of thousands of dollars a day and being to cool for school etc etc. It's disturbing that such a great community is degrading like this for no reason than they intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted an ad.
Martin / Markski,
I get that you guys have had issues in the past. And for whatever reason it keeps coming up in different threads (I've seen it a few times now). Remember Pepsi compares themselves to Coke because Coke is the big boy. Coke doesn't compare itself to Pepsi.
As a potential buyer with some assemblance of financial wherewithal and a love burning the liquid dinos this is turning me off both companies. Can we not just let this issue die and focus on business? The points have all been made.
they aren't very familiar with. And with their arrival, they were putting down
some of the other vendors on the board. I challenged their claims. Does that
constitute "viral" and does it degrade the forum?
Do you know what it means to make 630 hp and 690 ft lb tq on a stock engine
with a k16 and pump gas?
750-780 ft lbs tq......on a stock engine?
1.7 bar of boost on a stock engine that was designed for .08 bar?
Are these claims reasonable to you?
Just how long have you been a Porsche owner?
Last edited by layinback; Jan 18, 2014 at 03:00 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
This is a valid point and a fair opinion in my eyes.
Randy is not saying AMS are the worst tuner not at all!
Randy here is merely stating they have done well in the past so just because they bring out new products to the Porsche community, it does not mean they do what they say on the tin!
Turbocharger's can only flow so much air before they hit a brick wall.
Also the bottom line is if someone does not question what the hell is going on if something seems a bit fishy or suspect then who is on our side to regulate what tuners sell to us?
Randy is not saying AMS are the worst tuner not at all!
Randy here is merely stating they have done well in the past so just because they bring out new products to the Porsche community, it does not mean they do what they say on the tin!
Turbocharger's can only flow so much air before they hit a brick wall.
Also the bottom line is if someone does not question what the hell is going on if something seems a bit fishy or suspect then who is on our side to regulate what tuners sell to us?
That's what i'm saying.....
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
What kind of boost and gas was he running in the car to get the 5.87? I have asked that numerous times but no one has been able or willing to answer that question. Is that some sort of a secret as it seems that is pretty relevant in the big scheme of things? 91, 93, 100, 109 octane, what? 1.2, 1.3, 1.5, 1.7 bar?? Not trying to stir the pot, just curious because without knowing that, the 5.87 number doesn't tell a lot.
I also just looked at the AMS ad for the billets and for anyone that can read English, it should be pretty clear cut that they advertise about 550whp on pump. Seems pretty realistic to me so I don't know what the hoopla is about. Maybe 800 crank (what is that 680whp?) would be attainable on a one time hero shot but common sense would dictate that would not be on a streetable repeatable set up. Don't all tuners advertise the big hero number (pretty much always a crank HP for obvious reasons) at the top to get your attention (basic marketing 101) and then you see the real numbers (generally WHP) in the smaller print? As long as one can read and comprehend the English language, one can generally weed through the bs. I certainly have no dog in the hunt nor am I taking any sides. It's just an observation after reading a thread that has turned out to be pretty embarrassing for some of the participants. Some of what has been said or stated make me cringe..
I also just looked at the AMS ad for the billets and for anyone that can read English, it should be pretty clear cut that they advertise about 550whp on pump. Seems pretty realistic to me so I don't know what the hoopla is about. Maybe 800 crank (what is that 680whp?) would be attainable on a one time hero shot but common sense would dictate that would not be on a streetable repeatable set up. Don't all tuners advertise the big hero number (pretty much always a crank HP for obvious reasons) at the top to get your attention (basic marketing 101) and then you see the real numbers (generally WHP) in the smaller print? As long as one can read and comprehend the English language, one can generally weed through the bs. I certainly have no dog in the hunt nor am I taking any sides. It's just an observation after reading a thread that has turned out to be pretty embarrassing for some of the participants. Some of what has been said or stated make me cringe..
with it but this is for clarification.
The k16 setup was k16/16Gs ( old style mitsubishi wheel), rwd conversion, Markski
catless X pipe, Markski 3.5 ICs, 60 lb injectors and Greddy Profec B boost controller.
The car would run consistent 6.0s and a handful of 5.9s. The 5.8 was the best effort
and it was performed in 45-50 degree weather.
Here is a dyno chart and a Pbox graph I t dyno'd on two separate dynojets in the
550 range and 535 on a mustang.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,677
From: London (UK)
Rep Power: 156
I know and I am with you all the way!!
That's what annoys me about the tuning industry!
I have been following these forums for 8 years!
A company comes along and runs a very quick Qtr or a very high speed and automatically majority of trusting/gullible people think that has to be the best company to tune my car, I gotta have that.
It's like the perfect bait the wool has been pulled over the eyes instantly without a thought.
You might get a great service you might get a fast car but I how do you know what you are buying into?
For example yes I brought it up before and I'll say it again!
I had my aerospace coolers made by a company on my behalf.
Then I put them up against Porsche's finest and another well known tuning brand in an independent test by a company who is accredited with ISO standards.
Only thing I dictated in the test were the temps and flows and they had to be the same in all 3 tests and it happened while I was sitting 100miles away from the place lol. ( I cannot think of one tuner that has done this only OEM companies and F1 etc...etc...)
Now if little old me can do this and prove to myself and others that what I have created is better than the rest in the test then why is it when tuners are approached and asked to prove their claims they get on their high horse and do their upmost best to come out with every excuse under the sun as to why they are not going to do it.
Instead they come out with I made a car go this fast or that fast or blah blah blah and totally miss the point and then you ask yourself why?!
It's so condescending it's unbelievable they treat us like we don't know anything.
I am gutted that some of you guys want to let them and not just AMS in this case get away with it.
Randy is actually on our side not theirs so have a deep think about it.
Last edited by GTRNICK; Jan 18, 2014 at 03:32 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
I know and I am with you all the way!!
That's what annoys me about the tuning industry!
I have been following these forums for 8 years!
A company comes along and runs a very quick Qtr or a very high speed and automatically majority of trusting/gullible people think that has to be the best company to tune my car, I gotta have that.
It's like the perfect bait the wool has been pulled over the eyes instantly without a thought.
You might get a great service you might get a fast car but I how do you know what you are buying into?
For example yes I brought it up before and I'll say it again!
I had my aerospace coolers made by a company on my behalf.
Then I put them up against Porsche's finest and another well known tuning brand in an independent test by a company who is accredited with ISO standards.
Only thing I dictated in the test were the temps and flows and they had to be the same in all 3 tests and it happened while I was sitting 100miles away from the place lol.
Now if little old me can do this and prove to myself and others that what I have created is better than the rest in the test then why is it when tuners are approached and asked to prove their claims they get on their high horse and do their upmost best to come out with every excuse under the sun as to why they are not going to do it.
Instead they come out with I made a car go this fast or that fast or blah blah blah and totally miss the point and then you ask yourself why?!
It's so condescending it's unbelievable they treat us like we don't know anything.
I am gutted that some of you guys want to let them and not just AMS in this case get away with it.
Randy is actually on our side not theirs so have a deep think about it.
That's what annoys me about the tuning industry!
I have been following these forums for 8 years!
A company comes along and runs a very quick Qtr or a very high speed and automatically majority of trusting/gullible people think that has to be the best company to tune my car, I gotta have that.
It's like the perfect bait the wool has been pulled over the eyes instantly without a thought.
You might get a great service you might get a fast car but I how do you know what you are buying into?
For example yes I brought it up before and I'll say it again!
I had my aerospace coolers made by a company on my behalf.
Then I put them up against Porsche's finest and another well known tuning brand in an independent test by a company who is accredited with ISO standards.
Only thing I dictated in the test were the temps and flows and they had to be the same in all 3 tests and it happened while I was sitting 100miles away from the place lol.
Now if little old me can do this and prove to myself and others that what I have created is better than the rest in the test then why is it when tuners are approached and asked to prove their claims they get on their high horse and do their upmost best to come out with every excuse under the sun as to why they are not going to do it.
Instead they come out with I made a car go this fast or that fast or blah blah blah and totally miss the point and then you ask yourself why?!
It's so condescending it's unbelievable they treat us like we don't know anything.
I am gutted that some of you guys want to let them and not just AMS in this case get away with it.
Randy is actually on our side not theirs so have a deep think about it.
I got a lot of private messages from people who agree with me but who
won't voice it on the open forums. LOL a couple guys started back peddling
in the middle of the thread!
The industry I make my living in is much worse than the tuning industry.
Before I was anybody in the industry, I stood up against the status quo
and chicanery. I caught hell for the first several years but we continued
to do the right thing and press forward. I gotta say, many changes were
made in the industry as a whole. It was nice to be a part of that.
And I don't think AMS is the worst offender. It will take them a decade to
catch up to Evoms lol.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,677
From: London (UK)
Rep Power: 156
Well I am always up for a little constructive confrontation!
I am not scared to speak my mind or get to the point.
I feel though sometimes on a forum it is very hard to get you point across in text.
Where as face to face you will probably find a lot more people understand what you are saying especially if they do not know you!
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
Well I am always up for a little constructive confrontation!
I am not scared to speak my mind or get to the point.
I feel though sometimes on a forum it is very hard to get you point across in text.
Where as face to face you will probably find a lot more people understand what you are saying especially if they do not know you!
I am not scared to speak my mind or get to the point.
I feel though sometimes on a forum it is very hard to get you point across in text.
Where as face to face you will probably find a lot more people understand what you are saying especially if they do not know you!
cabinet was comprised of adversarial opinions. I'm always asking for
feedback on the various operations I own and of my personal performance.
I've been fortunate enough to make it to the tip top level of success in my
industry but that success has its own inherent detractors. It's easy to
begin believing your own bullsh!t lol. It's easy to think, " What are they
gonna teach me? Hell, I wrote the book!" We must have fresh perspectives
and we must be challenged. We become rigid and jaded when we master
a subject. It's always the new guy who revives the organization! New guys
don't have many preconceived notions and their perceptions aren't tainted
by rigid formulas.
And sometimes the claims are so outrageous, somebody needs to say something.
Last edited by layinback; Jan 18, 2014 at 04:19 PM.