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Who here thinks the Power kit is a ripoff?

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Old Jan 15, 2014 | 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tromero
The argument supporting Porsche's lower hp in comparison to other brands is that the Porsche is lighter. Maybe so but who says we can't have both? Why can't Porsche give us more power in the same light package? They CAN do it if they choose. It's not as if they lack the technological ability to deliver more hp. WHY do they deny us this?
There is not a lot more power you can still squeeze out of a 3.8 or 4.0 naturally aspirated flat six and it will mostly be in the higher rpm's.
If you want more 'usable' power, you need to forced injection or another type of engine (tuner have transplanted V8's with success in recent 911's).
But the flat six NA engine is part of the 911 DNA and that's why a lot of people love it.

To make a long story short: if someone wants more 'power', he can buy a Turbo. If the same person thinks it is too expensive, he can buy from another make
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by HotHonda
For myself I rarely get to use the power/potential my 991S is capable of without fear of the big $$$ traffic ticket. Yes I have V-1, but little defense against instant-on.

WA State troopers know what they're doing.

Any thoughts of adding another $15K is a big flush of the toilet......
Drop that V1, get an Escort 9500 or Max, install a laser jammer and run Waze on your smartphone
Not saying you should be speeding or that I am, but combine these tools with good awareness and a bit of common sense and you should be fine.
2 years without tickets so far -knock on wood- but no crazy street driving either.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tromero
The argument supporting Porsche's lower hp in comparison to other brands is that the Porsche is lighter. Maybe so but who says we can't have both? Why can't Porsche give us more power in the same light package? They CAN do it if they choose. It's not as if they lack the technological ability to deliver more hp. WHY do they deny us this?
I think there is also the cascading affect. If they give it to the C2 then everything above it has to be bumped. Maybe it's easy enough to give some more HP on the C2 but harder on the Turbo. The Cayman folks complain about the same thing. They're obviously limited in power too to make sure the car is differentiated enough with the 911 beyond the mid/rear engine part.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 09:32 AM
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Imagine a car company that just makes cars as best as engineering will allow them to be without artificially "limiting" them. Apple for example gives us the very best products that current technology allows. Imagine if they purposely dumbed down new ipads for fear of offending previous ipad owners of earlier versions. The idea is to put forth your very best product and let the market pay for it if they want it. I would hope that any company would embrace this philosophy. Porsche must understand they are not competing with themselves and there are some other compelling options. Mind you I have been a life long Porsche guy ever since my dad brought home a 1974 911 T and I got my first 911 in 1992 and have owned 9 since then and at least one from every generation except the 996 so I am well qualified to offer such an opinion. I understand Porsche was never about the highest hp but now prices are just getting out of control. $200k for a turbo? $125k for an S? it's absurd...
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by HotHonda
For myself I rarely get to use the power/potential my 991S is capable of without fear of the big $$$ traffic ticket. Yes I have V-1, but little defense against instant-on.

WA State troopers know what they're doing.

Any thoughts of adding another $15K is a big flush of the toilet......
Using a V1 is like going to the track in a Lexus GS350. It's a good product but it's not the right tool for the task at hand.

These days the best protection comes from:
Bel STIR+ with band segmentation and Escort Live. Will give you surprising visibility into instant-on.
Laser Interceptor Quad HP

That said I agree with you - no system is a substitute for intelligent driving.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 10:02 AM
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I think we should all ask how long a 911 engine lasts.
I would accept a little less power for long term reliability.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tromero
Imagine a car company that just makes cars as best as engineering will allow them to be without artificially "limiting" them. Apple for example gives us the very best products that current technology allows. Imagine if they purposely dumbed down new ipads for fear of offending previous ipad owners of earlier versions. The idea is to put forth your very best product and let the market pay for it if they want it. I would hope that any company would embrace this philosophy. Porsche must understand they are not competing with themselves and there are some other compelling options. Mind you I have been a life long Porsche guy ever since my dad brought home a 1974 911 T and I got my first 911 in 1992 and have owned 9 since then and at least one from every generation except the 996 so I am well qualified to offer such an opinion. I understand Porsche was never about the highest hp but now prices are just getting out of control. $200k for a turbo? $125k for an S? it's absurd...
I get what you're saying but using Apple is the worst example you can have. They're known for holding back technology and handing it out incrementally in their 'S' upgrades. Similar to Porsche they charge a premium for their fit and finish and cachet. Samsung could possibly be the equivalent of the Vette where you get more power for a cheaper price but not as well built, etc.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Yonkers
I get what you're saying but using Apple is the worst example you can have. They're known for holding back technology and handing it out incrementally in their 'S' upgrades. Similar to Porsche they charge a premium for their fit and finish and cachet. Samsung could possibly be the equivalent of the Vette where you get more power for a cheaper price but not as well built, etc.
Perfectly right: Why is there no fingerprint reading on the new iPads while it was released earlier on the iPhone 5S? Why no bigger screen for the iPhone yet while there is no technical roadblock? etc.

I would add that similar to Porsche, they use technology and software that work, is robust and reliable. I can drive my 911 back from the track without worrying about breaking down and my MacBooks have not crashed in years.
As far as Samsung is concerned, I have tried their products twice... and brought them back the very next day to get an iPhone. Same experience as a Chevy dealership
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Yonkers
I get what you're saying but using Apple is the worst example you can have. They're known for holding back technology and handing it out incrementally in their 'S' upgrades. Similar to Porsche they charge a premium for their fit and finish and cachet. Samsung could possibly be the equivalent of the Vette where you get more power for a cheaper price but not as well built, etc.

That is a very good analogy for Porsche. Well said.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
They could just delete the Chevrolet part of the name and make Corvette it's own brand. A bit like how Viper is now an SRT and not a Dodge. Corvette can be the brand, and Stingray, Z06, etc. can be models. You can then give Corvette franchises to Cadillac dealers.

The car doesn't even have a Chevy bow tie logo on it anywhere as far as I can tell. It has it's own Corvette logo. So they don't need to change the product, just the marketing and the channel availability. I doubt it would even require changing franchise agreements, just reassigning allocations.

The thing I wouldn't like is my Corvette being serviced next to a Cobalt. That bowtie symbol is lurking somewhere. The Corvette looks a little GT-R-esque to me actually. I guess, to each their own.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
Porsche does offer customisation, but they also nickel and dime features
The nickel and diming....This is maybe my greatest complaint about the Porsche brand.

When you buy a 100k Range Rover, there are only a few options you can add to the car. The Range Rover as sold, is fully loaded. Same thing to a certain degree with Aston Martin.

Porsche should just offer a great standard 911 and only leave out the most uncommon customisations.

Just my 0.2
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MMK110464
The nickel and diming....This is maybe my greatest complaint about the Porsche brand.

When you buy a 100k Range Rover, there are only a few options you can add to the car. The Range Rover as sold, is fully loaded. Same thing to a certain degree with Aston Martin.

Porsche should just offer a great standard 911 and only leave out the most uncommon customisations.

Just my 0.2
But then you'll have the people who complain that they have all these options they wish they could drop. For goodness sake, I've seen plenty of posts complaining that the Nav is not optional in North America.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Yonkers
But then you'll have the people who complain that they have all these options they wish they could drop. For goodness sake, I've seen plenty of posts complaining that the Nav is not optional in North America.
That's from people who want to save $500 by skipping the nav. I say such people have no business buying a 911.

My opinion - they should offer following
  • a base car which has virtually nothing (Lightweight car for the minimalists and cheeps - Bose can be in this standard version)
  • A Premium Ultra Package which has all non driving tech (cameras, parking sensors, sunroof, Burmester, LED lights, power steering plus, etc.)
  • A Sports package available on either lightweight or loaded car (PSE, SportChrono, PASM, PDCC all combined in one package)
  • A Competition Package also available on lightweight or loaded car (Powerkit, Aerokit and SPASM)
  • Porsche Exclusive options can remain:- Leave paint, leather, trim and Aero Upgrades open to whatever customization you want as they currently do.

Thus you get scale efficiency and simplicity in options, and the degree of bespoke finishes that a $100k+ car should have.
 

Last edited by stealth.pilot; Jan 15, 2014 at 12:47 PM.
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
That's from people who want to save $500 by skipping the nav. I say such people have no business buying a 911.

My opinion - they should offer following
a lightweight version which has virtually nothing (Bose can be in this version)
a loaded version which has all the technology (cameras, parking sensors, sunroof, Burmester, etc.)
make the sporty stuff a package (PSE, SportChrono, SPASM, PDC all combined in one package)
leave paint, leather and trim open to whatever customization you want as they currently do.

Thus you get scale efficiency and simplicity in options, and the degree of bespoke finishes that a $100k+ car should have.
You'd still **** off a lot of people. A lot of people don't want power steering for loss of feel, don't want the slammed look of SPASM but want PSE, don't want the dash bump of SportChrono, don't want sunroof, want 14-way vs 18-way seats. Those have nothing to do with money.
I think they should include things like rear cameras. I don't think anyone would complain about that.
 
Old Jan 15, 2014 | 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Yonkers
You'd still **** off a lot of people. A lot of people don't want power steering for loss of feel, don't want the slammed look of SPASM but want PSE, don't want the dash bump of SportChrono, don't want sunroof, want 14-way vs 18-way seats. Those have nothing to do with money.
I think they should include things like rear cameras. I don't think anyone would complain about that.
Yeah well **** those people. I think my revised proposal above addresses the SPASM issue.
 


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