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997 Turbo / GT2 20062012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

Mezger vs Newer

 
  #46  
Old 08-30-2010, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bbywu View Post
A magic box that shakes an engine like a martini isn't going to replace decades of endurance races.

Think it's durable? Find a racing team that is willing to race ANY VERSION of the A91.

- bob
It's only a matter of time before they start racing with the new motor.
 
  #47  
Old 08-30-2010, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TXTurbo View Post
It's only a matter of time before they start racing with the new motor.
You keep believing that...
 
  #48  
Old 08-30-2010, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bbywu View Post
You keep believing that...
Not nearly as much as 997.1 owners believe their engine superior
 
  #49  
Old 08-30-2010, 08:35 PM
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Yes, and thank you

Originally Posted by pepper09tt View Post
Not nearly as much as 997.1 owners believe their engine superior
 
  #50  
Old 08-30-2010, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pepper09tt View Post
Not nearly as much as 997.1 owners believe their engine superior
...true...because we're still waiting for Porsche Motorsport to use the A91. It's been available now...what...5 years?
 
  #51  
Old 08-30-2010, 08:46 PM
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I just find it hard to believe Porsche has started to build less reliable engines
 
  #52  
Old 08-30-2010, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pepper09tt View Post
I just find it hard to believe Porsche has started to build less reliable engines
Not less reliable... just less expensive
 
  #53  
Old 08-30-2010, 10:46 PM
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Check out all these 997 engine failures, kinda scary.

http://www.total911.com/news/466/
 
  #54  
Old 08-30-2010, 11:31 PM
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I'm holding off my judgment of the new engine. Yes, there are things I do not like about it. At this point I don't think there are enough modded new engines to say much of anything. The one thing for sure Porsche cheaped out on is going to a wet sump lubrication system. Ask any serious racer about that and see what they say. If they went that route (cheaper) what else did they do to make it cheaper? Will it be less reliable stock than the Metz, no I doubt it. Will it be less reliable in a high hp application than the Metz, maybe.
 
  #55  
Old 08-31-2010, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TTdude View Post
Check out all these 997 engine failures, kinda scary.

http://www.total911.com/news/466/
Quite a few of these are 997.1's...so go figure
 
  #56  
Old 08-31-2010, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pepper09tt View Post
Quite a few of these are 997.1's...so go figure
Yes, m96/7 wet sump N/A motors to be accurate. The 9A1 is a huge improvement over the m96/7, but it is not a substitute for the Mezger IMO .
 
  #57  
Old 08-31-2010, 11:10 AM
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guys, racing is a tough comparison cause in pro racing where cost really isn't an issue, porsche uses a LOT of stuff that doesn't appear on my beloved 997.1 modded tt or on ANY road going model, including the car it's homologated off of, the 3.8 gt3: sequential dogbox, suspension, c/f fenders, exhaust, batteries, and i'm guessing radiators too, to name a few. i'm sure the tranny on my tt would blow up in a 24hr race too but i didn't consider that when i bot the car. the RSR is about BALANCE between mechanical grip, aero grip, and power/endurance, very little of which is available to us on the street, and that balance is to win races at the limit. i'm no wetsumper, but pounding the unfort few who bot 997.2 tt's or pdk junkies sounds oddly like aircooled guys saying watercooling would be the end of the 911. face it, road cars are ALL very soft in many ways vs a true race car and will never compare nicely, and if u think your 997.1 tt is a modern gt1, i beg u to go stand next to one and say it again with a straight face! street cars are about economics, and selling a piece of the dream to fat old dudes at the highest price to fund the company, hence the weird panamera and the cayenne assault on the world, and yes the boxster entry level money maker. WAKE UP. if not, why sell c2, c2s, c4s, TURBO CAB??? it's all about marketing to the masses which has been smoke and mirrors since day 1.

ps. please cheer on lizards at petit, 997 RSR has overcome incredible odds to nearly win a HUGE championship for Porsche!!!!
 
  #58  
Old 08-31-2010, 04:10 PM
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Oct 30, 2009

Exploring The Limits



<hr>
Porsche's 911 Turbo engines have been attracting high-performance tuners for decades, each one pushing the limits of engine performance further and further into the high-horsepower stratosphere. In the past, elite tuning firms like Ruf and TechArt were forced to replace dozens of internal engine components with bespoke, strengthened parts to handle the loads that 600+ horsepower put on them. All that changed, however, with the introduction of the 997 model Porsche Turbos in 2006.

“The 997 engine is really an incredible piece of engineering,” says Tym Switzer, who has spent the last few years exploring the limits of the 997 Turbo engine, inside and out. “When we set out to develop more horsepower with the 997 Porsche, we approached it the same way we approach any new platform: we analyze the factory components and the way they were designed to handles stress loads to establish an upper limit of what the engine is capable of. When I first looked into the 997 engine, I was very impressed with the quality of the entire assembly.”

What Switzer saw in the 997's engine was the result a no-holds-barred engineering program that culminated in Porsche's 964/GT1 racecar – a turbocharged monster that developed staggering horsepower with enough ruggedness and reliability built in to stand up to the punishing abuse of 24-hour endurance racing. As such, the 997 Turbo engine ships from the factory with many of the components necessary for making big horsepower already in place. “It's like they took a checklist from the page of every tuner out there that was rebuilding these engines, and decided to just put all that stuff in at the factory. Forged connecting rods? Check. Reinforced crankshaft? Check. Dry-sump oil system? Check. It's all there. In fact, just about every component in the 997 was over-built. Inside, it looks more like one of the cutting edge import race engines we were building in the 90's than it did any kind of street engine.”

With a high degree of confidence in the 997 Turbo engine's internals, Switzer moved to develop a line of bolt-on power-builders that would take advantage of the car's strengths, while addressing some of the limiting factors. “The turbos and intercoolers had to be upgraded to produce the the airflow and efficiencies we needed to reach our objectives. That was a given. Working with our technology partners, we were able to come to market with new upgrade turbo solutions. We also worked diligently to develop our own 'MONSTER' intercoolers and intake plumbing. I think our overall upgrade strategy compliments the overbuilt nature of the 997 perfectly.”

Switzer's tuning program eventually led to the firm's L4 PKG, which delivers over 700 horsepower on 93 octane gasoline with upgraded versions of Porsche's excellent factory VTG turbos – all while remaining emissions compliant. “You could never do something like this ten years ago on stock internals,” he explains. “The older air-cooled Porsche engines just couldn't handle that kind of power without a fully substantially reinforced engine.”

Eventually, though, Switzer's customers wanted more than 700 or 800 hp. “Too much is never enough for some clients,” offers Tym, “so in order to develop a solid engine program for these more ambitious projects, it was essential to see just how much power some of these stock components could stand up to, when tuned properly. We then spoke to a few of our more adventurous clients and decided to see exactly where the limits of the 997 really are.”

Last fall, Switzer and his crew reached 850 all-wheel horsepower (approx. 1000 crank hp) with their SLEDGEHAMMER project car. That prodigious power output and the car's standard all-wheel-drive traction delivered enough performance for repeated 9.7-second quarter-mile runs at over 145 mph with 60-130 times in the 4's – performance that falls well into “Superbike” territory.

This week, one year on, Switzer's SLEDGEHAMMER is still pulling strong, serving as the company's 997 development mule and astonishing everyone with its engine's longevity and durability. “Everyone who has been in this industry for a number of years is surprised by these cars,” says Tym. “Really, though, there's no surprises here. When we reached 700 hp a year and a half ago, we were told the engines were time-bombs. Dozens of customer cars and literally thousands of road - and track! - miles later, the cars are still running strong. The P800 kit we introduced earlier this year proved that the limit wasn't anywhere near 700 hp, and earlier this week, the original SLEDGEHAMMER came back to the shop and did back-to-back dyno pulls at 915 horsepower with nearly 800 lb-ft of torque. We've made some minor updates to the fuel system and standalone engine management system, but that's still 50 hp and almost 100 lb-ft more than the car's best numbers a year ago, and it's still holding together. As expected. I think, more than anything, these huge power levels serve to show just how good the Porsche 997 Turbo is from the factory. As a tuner, you couldn't ask for a better, stronger foundation. The real challenge has been to make the most of what's already there.”
This is a good reading.


Maybe in a couple of years we will see similar power produced by the new engine. I hope so, but honestly I doubt it will happen. At least not without building the motors.

Just my opinion though.
 

Last edited by emadelta86; 08-31-2010 at 04:14 PM.
  #59  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:44 PM
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someone mentioned that in a few years the cup cars will run pdk dfi.
 

Last edited by gt2urbo; 08-31-2010 at 05:48 PM.
  #60  
Old 08-31-2010, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by emadelta86 View Post
This is a good reading.


Maybe in a couple of years we will see similar power produced by the new engine. I hope so, but honestly I doubt it will happen. At least not without building the motors.

Just my opinion though.
just playing devil's advocate but is it really cause for celebration that the sledgehammer is running strong after 1 year? It's no one's fault the car is only a year old, but just sounds kind of weird.
 

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