997.2 vs 997.1 Turbo
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cannga, Thanks for the insights, your threads have been tremendously educational for a newbie like me. I joined the PCA the week I bought the car (a couple of weeks ago from Rusnak), I think my regional choice was the LA chapter, I live in Palos Verdes. I'm really enjoying the TT, and I'll wait awhile before deciding if I should go mod crazy. I am changing the rocker panels and rear valance from white to black, a personal choice, the front lip is already black. If I do start modding I'm assuming you'd recommend the list reflected in your post? If I ever pull the trigger I'll have to get your advice on who should do the work. I'm going to have it serviced at Pacific Porsche, my local dealer and the owner is a personal friend, so that works well. I knew when the car showed up on Rusnak's site sans pictures that the specs were unusual and desirable. I went and checked out the car the next day and purchased it on the spot. Miles are a little higher than normal at 27,000, but the car is cosmetically just about perfect, and it's a CPO car. I'm putting a new clear bra on it, and probably replacing the windshield which has suffered from LA's third world road conditions. I'm having fun!
For ECU tune, because you are in LA, a custom tune with GIAC is absolutely and positively a no brainer - see my other thread. The GIAC tune does not require spark plug change btw, so when you compare costs of different tune companies, keep this in mind. Spark plug change in Turbo is not a minor job and is costly relatively. There are a number of GIAC in Los Angeles: Lucent (my personal tuner who has done majority of work in the car), Sambo above, and GMG, are all local GIAC dealers. You just pick one and tell them you would like a custom tune at GIAC facility.
Yes I would do exactly same were I to start modding a new Turbo now. With the 3 mods in my signatrue, the car has been transformed into something that is, for me anyway, thrilling to drive. It is firm, aggressive, ferociously fast, and the exhaust STIRRING
. I love it because for my taste and preference, it is now the epitome of a world class daily driver. Nothing I've driven and test driven (quite a few) has served this purpose better.
Last edited by cannga; Jan 2, 2014 at 01:45 PM.
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Cannga, Boy, finding your thread made me feel good about my recent purchase. It's a white/black 2009 TT, 6 speed, PCCB, Cl's with grey finish, limited slip, sports chrono, sports shifter, thick sports steering wheel, heated adaptive sports seats, XM, bluetooth, interface, yellow belts, CPO, I love driving this car. It replaced a Ferrari 550 Maranello and there's no comparison. BTW, I completely agree with your prospective on the PCCB's. Bryan
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Thanks! I'm looking for a GT silver turbo with pccbs and black interior though, with really low miles. Picky... see what I mean? 
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Thank you !!!
in a recent discussion, someone asked me about 997.2 versus 997.1 turbo. Up until now, i have thought that any new model porsche will be "better" than previous model and will at least make it *look* obsolete. (and if you've read my criticism of stock 997.1 turbo's suspension and exhaust, you know i don't pull punches just because i own this car.) however the 997.1 turbo has a huge trump card, and that is the mezger engine. Between new turbo engine of 997.2 versus old mezger turbo engine of 997.1, i used to think i don't care which engine as long as power is delivered, but the more i think about it, the more i am leaning towards changing my opinion. In another thread upgrading 997.2 turbo 6speed manual tom of champion was talking about the internals of 997.2 turbo engine and mentioned restriction of fuel system and rods testing 25% weaker. What crossed my mind reading his post is...what else is weaker in the 997.2 engine? 
the only exception i would add is this: With respect to suspension, if you are never going to mod the suspension, then the 997.2 turbo is the better choice. Its pasm system is the second generation and is much superior than 997.1, which was porsche's first attempt at pasm and somewhat of a design flaw (why a number of people here use bilstein coilover or lowering springs). 997.1's pasm is either way too soft or way too stiff between the 2 suspension settings, 997.2's pasm is a lot more useable and smoother on the stiffer setting. There were a number of other revisions (spring rate, sway bar, ptm system) that make 997.2 better - the advantage of 4 years of experience. In order of suspension ranking i would rank thus, not for everyone, only for those looking for a more aggressive handling car: Bilstein 997.2 > bilstein 997.1 > stock 997.2 >>> stock 997.1.
so, perhaps 997.1 turbo, mainly because of the mezger engine, will go down in history as the best turbo ever? perhaps owners of these cars should hold on and not sell? Perhaps potential owners should look for low mileage samples of 997.1, and not 997.2? For sure, for the purpose of modding, there will never again be an engine that is as mod-friendly and as robust as the mezger engine. (it is simply too expensive to be made nowadays.) unlike the mezger gt3 engine, which has problem with rms leak, the mezger turbo is the perfect engine.
bottom line: Imho anyone here looking to buy a used turbo, if you see a low mile 997.1 turbo, with pccb/chrono/adaptive sport seat -- jump on it! all 3 years of mezger turbo's, 2007 to 2009, are remarkably trouble free. Just look at this board (versus a bmw board for example) then it should become obvious to you. The most common problem is leaking from the powered steering and brake slave cylinder, but that is imho extremely minor compared to other potential problems with drivetrain, engine, electronics, etc. Of world class sports cars, and it is easily diagnosed, easily fixed. It can't be "looked out" for in buying a used car either. In looking at used cars, more important to get the dme readout and check for overrev's, and look for a cpo, low mileage, non-modded car, preferably with pccb. 2009 is most desirable because it has the new pcm 2 with bluetooth and ipod functions and touchscreen. You *can* add after-market bluetooth and ipod functions to 2007 and 2008 turbo's (i use mobridge in my 2008, work well in general and do all the functions but i don't recommend it because it has a beeping noise, a design flaw; dension is probably the best choice at this point.) but as in all after-market products, they would have glitches here and there and will never be as good as oem. my opinions-ymmv:
extremely desireable options:
pccb, if you don't track (if you track, regular brake is safer): Pccb has same stopping distance as big red but significantly superior feel and "initial bite." people have likened the feel to being stopped by the hands of god :-). While pccb is not for everyone, it is one of those things that imho you must try once in your life, and once you've tried it chances are you are not going to like the iron brake anymore. Also don't forget 35 lbs. Reduction in unsprung weight and rotational mass, which also benefits steering, ride, and handling. The only time that i wouldn't recommend pccb is if you track the car a lot and don't have extra $$$ (complicated story, search forum; some people do use pccb even on the track), otherwise for aggressive street use gen. Ii pccb has proven to be around 100% reliable. Btw for all practical purposes the pccb discs don't wear out, not until way past 100,000 per rumor anyway; you change the pads once every 35000 miles or so and that's it. Take this car quick before someone else on this forum does lol.
*** - adaptive sport seat: Far and away the best seat available. This hundred-thousand plus car it deserves this seat. Has deeper seat bolsters and deeper seat-back's bolsters to keep you in place when attacking those canyon curves. Very expensive to add later. I believe the only exception is if you are very large/heavy (no offense intended), in which case your torso may not fit comfortably because of the deep bolsters.
sport chrono (can be added but another costly pain). another sport chrono question - what else does sc do?
1. Psm (decreased with sport mode --- less intrusive)
2. Pasm (increased with sport mode --- stiffer dampening)
3. Ptm (the 4wd system becomes more rearward bias -- more power to rear)
4. Tcu -- tiptronic (more "sporty" shift pattern)
5. Ecu (increased turbo boost)
6. Etc (more responsive electronic throttle control)
moderately desireable:
sport steering wheel (smaller diameter and thicker grip vs. Multi function wheel). The sport steering wheel has a round hub and the important thumb rests at 2 and 10 o'clock; this is the one you want. The multi function wheel with a triangular hub and radio controls, etc., is not as desirable because it is slighter larger, with thinner grip (not good!), and most importantly does not have the thumb rests. Because it is so expensive to switch steering wheel, one could argue that this is a high level can't miss also.
limited slip differential: so cheap as an option, so costly to add later. If owner ordered this option, he is a connoisseur and surely a member of some porsche forum. :-)
could be added later:
sport/short shifter (trust me you will love it): Perhaps not *that* critical because this could be added for only a few hundred bucks. In addition, it is fun to try the standard long one, then switch to be amazed by how different, and better, the shorter one feels. This ssk option is firmer, less rubbery, more precise. Huge improvement for so little money.
the only exception i would add is this: With respect to suspension, if you are never going to mod the suspension, then the 997.2 turbo is the better choice. Its pasm system is the second generation and is much superior than 997.1, which was porsche's first attempt at pasm and somewhat of a design flaw (why a number of people here use bilstein coilover or lowering springs). 997.1's pasm is either way too soft or way too stiff between the 2 suspension settings, 997.2's pasm is a lot more useable and smoother on the stiffer setting. There were a number of other revisions (spring rate, sway bar, ptm system) that make 997.2 better - the advantage of 4 years of experience. In order of suspension ranking i would rank thus, not for everyone, only for those looking for a more aggressive handling car: Bilstein 997.2 > bilstein 997.1 > stock 997.2 >>> stock 997.1.
so, perhaps 997.1 turbo, mainly because of the mezger engine, will go down in history as the best turbo ever? perhaps owners of these cars should hold on and not sell? Perhaps potential owners should look for low mileage samples of 997.1, and not 997.2? For sure, for the purpose of modding, there will never again be an engine that is as mod-friendly and as robust as the mezger engine. (it is simply too expensive to be made nowadays.) unlike the mezger gt3 engine, which has problem with rms leak, the mezger turbo is the perfect engine.
bottom line: Imho anyone here looking to buy a used turbo, if you see a low mile 997.1 turbo, with pccb/chrono/adaptive sport seat -- jump on it! all 3 years of mezger turbo's, 2007 to 2009, are remarkably trouble free. Just look at this board (versus a bmw board for example) then it should become obvious to you. The most common problem is leaking from the powered steering and brake slave cylinder, but that is imho extremely minor compared to other potential problems with drivetrain, engine, electronics, etc. Of world class sports cars, and it is easily diagnosed, easily fixed. It can't be "looked out" for in buying a used car either. In looking at used cars, more important to get the dme readout and check for overrev's, and look for a cpo, low mileage, non-modded car, preferably with pccb. 2009 is most desirable because it has the new pcm 2 with bluetooth and ipod functions and touchscreen. You *can* add after-market bluetooth and ipod functions to 2007 and 2008 turbo's (i use mobridge in my 2008, work well in general and do all the functions but i don't recommend it because it has a beeping noise, a design flaw; dension is probably the best choice at this point.) but as in all after-market products, they would have glitches here and there and will never be as good as oem. my opinions-ymmv:
extremely desireable options:
pccb, if you don't track (if you track, regular brake is safer): Pccb has same stopping distance as big red but significantly superior feel and "initial bite." people have likened the feel to being stopped by the hands of god :-). While pccb is not for everyone, it is one of those things that imho you must try once in your life, and once you've tried it chances are you are not going to like the iron brake anymore. Also don't forget 35 lbs. Reduction in unsprung weight and rotational mass, which also benefits steering, ride, and handling. The only time that i wouldn't recommend pccb is if you track the car a lot and don't have extra $$$ (complicated story, search forum; some people do use pccb even on the track), otherwise for aggressive street use gen. Ii pccb has proven to be around 100% reliable. Btw for all practical purposes the pccb discs don't wear out, not until way past 100,000 per rumor anyway; you change the pads once every 35000 miles or so and that's it. Take this car quick before someone else on this forum does lol.
*** - adaptive sport seat: Far and away the best seat available. This hundred-thousand plus car it deserves this seat. Has deeper seat bolsters and deeper seat-back's bolsters to keep you in place when attacking those canyon curves. Very expensive to add later. I believe the only exception is if you are very large/heavy (no offense intended), in which case your torso may not fit comfortably because of the deep bolsters.
sport chrono (can be added but another costly pain). another sport chrono question - what else does sc do?
1. Psm (decreased with sport mode --- less intrusive)
2. Pasm (increased with sport mode --- stiffer dampening)
3. Ptm (the 4wd system becomes more rearward bias -- more power to rear)
4. Tcu -- tiptronic (more "sporty" shift pattern)
5. Ecu (increased turbo boost)
6. Etc (more responsive electronic throttle control)
moderately desireable:
sport steering wheel (smaller diameter and thicker grip vs. Multi function wheel). The sport steering wheel has a round hub and the important thumb rests at 2 and 10 o'clock; this is the one you want. The multi function wheel with a triangular hub and radio controls, etc., is not as desirable because it is slighter larger, with thinner grip (not good!), and most importantly does not have the thumb rests. Because it is so expensive to switch steering wheel, one could argue that this is a high level can't miss also.
limited slip differential: so cheap as an option, so costly to add later. If owner ordered this option, he is a connoisseur and surely a member of some porsche forum. :-)
could be added later:
sport/short shifter (trust me you will love it): Perhaps not *that* critical because this could be added for only a few hundred bucks. In addition, it is fun to try the standard long one, then switch to be amazed by how different, and better, the shorter one feels. This ssk option is firmer, less rubbery, more precise. Huge improvement for so little money.
all good points... So as a week-end warrior who has been driving porsches for about 10 years and started with the 1999 c2, i chickened out and sold that car because of the potential imploding engine due to the variety of seals that porsche did not seem to be able to repair or redesign. I looked at a variety of high-end italian iron and found major defects with everyone one of them. All those cars really are just a serious liability to your bank account with nothing but some bragging rights to show for it. So, there is very little out there that has the pure sports car feel and experience in a package that is pretty complete, can be driven daily and is affordable at the same time except a porsche. That is, except for the horrible exploding engines and seals that -frankly - still seem to pop up even in very recent built cars. But then, there is the mezger engine and now porsche had a package that i was prepared to invest my money in. My search therefor got limited to a few porsche car models and production years. I actually started to look for the appropriate drive train (gear box, engine and tracking components) and the body year was not that important any longer. In talking with porsche mechanics and indies that work on porsches, unanimously the story came back that said that any porsche turbo 2002 and later would be worthwhile to own ( if condition etc would be up to par).
I really don't care about the quality of the radio, or the entertainment pcm system and a classic interior porsche design (as outdated as it might be) makes me feel right at home. I do not long for a rearview camera, flick-flops to change gears and doing that through 7 built inc computers in 3 milliseconds. That is simply not why i want to drive a sports car. I want to be in charge, make the decisions and bully the car to where i want it to go.... And, all of that without braking down, costing an arm and a leg and an engine out every 5 years to change some belts at 15k dollars or a new belt housing and complete new transmission every 10k miles . That is not my idea of fun. As a week-end driver, i want to be able to mount my horse at anytime and put it back in the stables wet and hot after i am done. Just my view of fun and games i guess!! So a 2003 turbo, unsophisticated with a loud fabspeed exhaust and a old fashioned 6 speed gear box and a few extra horses easily extracted from that old 993 racing engine block seems to do be doing this rather nicely!
I really don't care about the quality of the radio, or the entertainment pcm system and a classic interior porsche design (as outdated as it might be) makes me feel right at home. I do not long for a rearview camera, flick-flops to change gears and doing that through 7 built inc computers in 3 milliseconds. That is simply not why i want to drive a sports car. I want to be in charge, make the decisions and bully the car to where i want it to go.... And, all of that without braking down, costing an arm and a leg and an engine out every 5 years to change some belts at 15k dollars or a new belt housing and complete new transmission every 10k miles . That is not my idea of fun. As a week-end driver, i want to be able to mount my horse at anytime and put it back in the stables wet and hot after i am done. Just my view of fun and games i guess!! So a 2003 turbo, unsophisticated with a loud fabspeed exhaust and a old fashioned 6 speed gear box and a few extra horses easily extracted from that old 993 racing engine block seems to do be doing this rather nicely!
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^^^You are welcome.
BTW, I am thinking of adding "manual transmission" to the list of "most desirable," for those on the fence. I have both types of transmissions (Porsche Turbo manual and BMW M3 PDK), love both and clearly the PDK is faster, but if forced to have one, I would still settle on the manual for the intangible "driver-engagement" aspect.
As manual transmission is in danger of being eliminated from future 911's, IMHO it is even more imperative for the manual die-hard people (you know who you are) to hold on to your manual Turbo and to look for one in your purchase decision.
This post is not a criticism of those who like automatic transmission (I like both and would like to keep one each in my garage, hence the PDK M3), and meant only for people on the fence.
BTW, I am thinking of adding "manual transmission" to the list of "most desirable," for those on the fence. I have both types of transmissions (Porsche Turbo manual and BMW M3 PDK), love both and clearly the PDK is faster, but if forced to have one, I would still settle on the manual for the intangible "driver-engagement" aspect.
As manual transmission is in danger of being eliminated from future 911's, IMHO it is even more imperative for the manual die-hard people (you know who you are) to hold on to your manual Turbo and to look for one in your purchase decision.
This post is not a criticism of those who like automatic transmission (I like both and would like to keep one each in my garage, hence the PDK M3), and meant only for people on the fence.
Last edited by cannga; Feb 14, 2014 at 10:31 AM.
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I had 3 997.1 turbo's, two coupes and one cab all 6sp with sport chrono and not ceramics, had them on my 04 GT3 and loved them. My current .2 turbo which is a PDK with ceramics and center locks is the better car all around except for gas mileage. The car drives, handles and accelerates better than the .1 cars hands down. The PDK is amazing to drive, I never put it in auto and always drive it in manual mode with the paddles in sport plus mode. The steering wheel with the paddle shifter is beautiful and makes the Tip look like junk with the buttons on the wheel. I never would have bought a PDK car if it was like the pre-09 tip cars, just looked stupid with those shifter on the spokes.
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^^^You are welcome.
BTW, I am thinking of adding "manual transmission" to the list of "most desirable," for those on the fence. I have both types of transmissions (Porsche Turbo manual and BMW M3 PDK), love both and clearly the PDK is faster, but if forced to have one, I would still settle on the manual for the intangible "driver-engagement" aspect.
As manual transmission is in danger of being eliminated from future 911's, IMHO it is even more imperative for the manual die-hard people (you know who you are) to hold on to your manual Turbo and to look for one in your purchase decision.
This post is not a criticism of those who like automatic transmission (I like both and would like to keep one each in my garage, hence the PDK M3), and meant only for people on the fence.
BTW, I am thinking of adding "manual transmission" to the list of "most desirable," for those on the fence. I have both types of transmissions (Porsche Turbo manual and BMW M3 PDK), love both and clearly the PDK is faster, but if forced to have one, I would still settle on the manual for the intangible "driver-engagement" aspect.
As manual transmission is in danger of being eliminated from future 911's, IMHO it is even more imperative for the manual die-hard people (you know who you are) to hold on to your manual Turbo and to look for one in your purchase decision.
This post is not a criticism of those who like automatic transmission (I like both and would like to keep one each in my garage, hence the PDK M3), and meant only for people on the fence.
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997.1 vs 997.2
Ha, posted this on the wrong thread earlier as I got lost down a tributary thread!!
Can, most of the time I am looking for info, I first go to search. You get a sense of who's advice is worthwhile and who is just passing through, regurgitating if you will. I have been missing the boost rush lately and thinking about a turbo again. My search for info from 997.1 vs 997.2 revealed your most informative and enjoyable thread. I have not read through much beyond the early stages that answered 95% of the questions I had. Thanks for taking the time to leave this legacy of great info for the board members and pcar enthusiasts.
Well done, John
Can, most of the time I am looking for info, I first go to search. You get a sense of who's advice is worthwhile and who is just passing through, regurgitating if you will. I have been missing the boost rush lately and thinking about a turbo again. My search for info from 997.1 vs 997.2 revealed your most informative and enjoyable thread. I have not read through much beyond the early stages that answered 95% of the questions I had. Thanks for taking the time to leave this legacy of great info for the board members and pcar enthusiasts.
Well done, John
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I'm with you BlueTurboS, I was able to find an 09 6 speed with PCCB's and Cl's along with a lot of other good stuff. The PCCB's top the list though.......
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Cannga,
I loved your post on "997.2 vs 997.1 Turbo" and found it very informative.
I'm new and would love to get your thoughts on the 996TTs, I am considering a 2003 996TT, basic car with not much options really, but low miles, under 20k miles. It will be my first P car.
I'm now certain I'd like to experience a Mezger engine.
Thanks in advance.
I loved your post on "997.2 vs 997.1 Turbo" and found it very informative.
I'm new and would love to get your thoughts on the 996TTs, I am considering a 2003 996TT, basic car with not much options really, but low miles, under 20k miles. It will be my first P car.
I'm now certain I'd like to experience a Mezger engine.
Thanks in advance.
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Cannga,
I loved your post on "997.2 vs 997.1 Turbo" and found it very informative.
I'm new and would love to get your thoughts on the 996TTs, I am considering a 2003 996TT, basic car with not much options really, but low miles, under 20k miles. It will be my first P car.
I'm now certain I'd like to experience a Mezger engine.
Thanks in advance.
I loved your post on "997.2 vs 997.1 Turbo" and found it very informative.
I'm new and would love to get your thoughts on the 996TTs, I am considering a 2003 996TT, basic car with not much options really, but low miles, under 20k miles. It will be my first P car.
I'm now certain I'd like to experience a Mezger engine.
Thanks in advance.
There has been several threads comparing the two. It's just a whole different experience as the two do not compare very well...
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Thanks