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My budget audio install updated 3/22/15

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My budget audio install updated 3/22/15

 
  #46  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by markiii View Post
whats your concern?
Exactly. Install that kit! Read evhudsons thread too. Note that the tweeter install is some work. And that the woofers in the doors need spacers. Also, even if you don't change them, disconnect the mid ranges in the doors and the center speaker. They will not sound good with the new components. You might also need to disconnect the rears or turn them down with the fader.

Now you guys got me looking at powered subwoofers! That Bose subwoofer is actually pretty big. Looks like it has very ample power wiring as well.
 
  #47  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:37 AM
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Brother you keep referring to evhudson's thread. You mind posting the link is it here or is it in another forum??
 
  #48  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slicky rick View Post
Brother you keep referring to evhudson's thread. You mind posting the link is it here or is it in another forum??
Sorry, difficult using the mobile app. Search stereo install on this forum and you'll find it. Post again if you don't.
 
  #49  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
I'm not an expert on car audio. However, I still notice that the Focal Be component system that is just a 2 way and costs $5000, still relies on a 6.5" driver.
I'm not suggesting that 6.5" is not an appropriate size. I'm simply curious why you think that anything larger sacrifices better "punch" and that high linear excursion is a good thing. As you probably know, 6.5" is about as large as you can go with a 2-way because you get high frequency directional rolloff from beaming (a function of the driver diameter), and it's difficult to cross tweeters over low enough. You can do it, but there are design or sound quality compromises.

And the Be 6.5" does not produce adequate bass without a sub, just like every other 6.5" midwoofer.
 
  #50  
Old 09-05-2013, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gasongasoff View Post
I'm not suggesting that 6.5" is not an appropriate size. I'm simply curious why you think that anything larger sacrifices better "punch" and that high linear excursion is a good thing. As you probably know, 6.5" is about as large as you can go with a 2-way because you get high frequency directional rolloff from beaming (a function of the driver diameter), and it's difficult to cross tweeters over low enough. You can do it, but there are design or sound quality compromises.

And the Be 6.5" does not produce adequate bass without a sub, just like every other 6.5" midwoofer.
Good point on the crossover. Probably valid that you are likely to have some suckout in the midrange without a midrange if you only go with a 2 way 8" setup.

My point was that you can achieve very good "mid bass" with a 6.5" driver and very deep bass with a very good setup. In a car, I would agree that your probably not going to get that deep bass without the addition of a sub, which the Bose already has. Stands to argue that you can probably get better mid bass punch running a 6.5" two way setup and a sub woofer than an 8" two way setup. However, the deeper bass of the 8" may be more pleasing to most.

I think anyone that does the speaker only upgrade will certainly notice the additional "kick" from the new drivers. I found it a big difference and solid improvement. Now I think about the sub and want to at least stuff it and see if it can be improved or consider one of the small powered subwoofers.
 

Last edited by ryem3; 09-05-2013 at 12:08 PM.
  #51  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
Anyway, as for home audio, you can certainly reach below 30hz with 6.5" drivers. Check out Aerial Acoustics. New model, 7t, 7.1" drivers and clean to 25hz. That's only one example. I have 7b's and they are certainly below 30hz with 2 6.5" woofers. However, they have well braced cabinets that are 2" thick and weigh 100lbs each! Their top speakers only use 9" drivers and cost $32,000 a pair. Most high end speakers don't use 12" drivers anymore, they don't have the speed of smaller ones. Sure, there are exceptions to every comment - I know there are makers running 15" drivers, but they are really the exception.
I don't want to get into a debate about home audio, and your opinions are certainly valid. I do, however, want to point out that while the Aerial 7T's are world class speakers, they are still classified as "Restricted Extreme Low Frequency" by Stereophile. And the 7T's feature DUAL 7" drivers, which have the equivalent surface area of a single 10" woofer. Consider this, compared to a single 6.5" driver, and I hope you see my point.

(Along the same product line, it is the Aerial Model 20T that is considered "Full Range." The 20T's have dual 9" drivers, which have the equivalent surface area of a single 13" woofer.)

That's the best part of the upgrade, it has made the mid bass tight and punchy. Much punchier than the Bose. You feel the impact of the kick drums. Big difference than the muddy deep bass from the sub. That's exactly what I was after. If you want big, booming bass, this upgrade isn't going to give it to you. What is most surprising is that the little 4" Focals are pretty punchy themselves, never would have guessed it.
Without measuring your upgraded system, I would guess that the perception of "punchiness" actually comes from the midbass region, which is likely to be superior on a small driver than a compromise 8" (which is what the OEM Bose 8-incher looks like) designed more for bass extension.


Anyway, your setup looks like a terrific option for anyone who wants the best quality sound without swapping out any electronics! Way to go!
 
  #52  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:07 PM
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Your points are valid. I'm really not sure about our debate about bigger or smaller drivers. In respect to some of the Class A speakers with limited extreme LF, man of those speakers produce some pretty impressive low frequencies. The ones that are full range are really speakers that deliver full 20 hz response. Anyway, part of the point in my experience is that there is a difference in the DELIVERY of the bass with 2 7" drivers instead of one 10". With modern drivers, lighter cones and more powerful magnets will move the same amount of air with a smaller driver as a larger one. I've just heard more muddy bass from larger drivers than better engineered smaller ones.

With the 4" midrange in the door, an 8" probably will give better, fuller range. In a car, I suspect a 6.5" is going to come really close. I agree though, that your not going to get anywhere near full response without a subwoofer to go below 60hz or so (don't even know what the bottom of the 6.5" is). Cleaning up the subwoofer will also be important. I'll only say that the Bose sub integrates pretty well with the system as is. The sub will give the extra bass to fill out the system. I'm thinking a bit about sub alternatives, but the system is really not bad as is.
 
  #53  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:19 PM
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Why is that we do not consider a small speaker for the center channel. There is output there anyway and if we have a similarntweeter there it might improve the sound some more? Infinity bass link for the subwoofer, smaller cleaner not too expensive lighter and you get more space to stash your money. Rye have you tried to run your system with the stock rear in place and running? I actually dont want to mess with the panels at the rear.
 
  #54  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:20 AM
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isn't the centre used only in surround mode, which sounds pants anyway
 
  #55  
Old 09-06-2013, 06:52 AM
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maybe it sounds pant because all is pants but if we upgrade a few speakers maybe it might add a bit of flavor
 
  #56  
Old 09-06-2013, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by slicky rick View Post
Why is that we do not consider a small speaker for the center channel. There is output there anyway and if we have a similarntweeter there it might improve the sound some more? Infinity bass link for the subwoofer, smaller cleaner not too expensive lighter and you get more space to stash your money. Rye have you tried to run your system with the stock rear in place and running? I actually dont want to mess with the panels at the rear.
You could certainly consider it. However, it is a very small space. There is no way a 4" coax would fit. Also, all speakers are sold in pairs!

You could leave the stock rears and turn them down or disconnect them. I didn't really experiment too much with that. I found that the Focals in the rear do add a fair amount to the sound. I debated the pain I went through, but in the end decided to go all the way. Initially, I just had the speakers sitting in the holes! The improvement was enough that I wanted to install them properly. Buy them from Crutchfield and do the same thing. If they don't sound decent, you have 60 days to return them.

Originally Posted by markiii View Post
isn't the centre used only in surround mode, which sounds pants anyway
Sorry, that speaker works all the time. It will also be quite a bit more efficient than everything else. I tried it. It was blaring midrange noise at me when I turned it up. It'll be enough to give you a headache. Disconnecting it is pretty easy, replacing it would be a REAL challenge.
 
  #57  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:32 AM
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interesting that, would have thought a centre tweeter in use when its not faking surround would simply have screwed the soundstage

maybe it does and thats half teh problem?

is the centre just a tweeter or a full range?
 
  #58  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by markiii View Post
interesting that, would have thought a centre tweeter in use when its not faking surround would simply have screwed the soundstage

maybe it does and thats half teh problem?

is the centre just a tweeter or a full range?
It looks to be a full range speaker, it may even have a tweeter, a bit hard to tell. Actually it looks like a pretty high quality driver. Regardless, the efficiency won't match the new speakers and it is impossible to adjust.
 
  #59  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:30 PM
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Resistors. Cant we justplace resistors to match efficiency? I wish i had all the flexibility of buying and returning stuff. Unfortunately u am nit from the us and everything i buy is bought not to mention shipped to me at a cost. So planning and executing this project is more a gamble for me. That is why ryem3 gasongasoff and all the knowlegable brothers who have experienced this mod are my only basis to believe that this mod is indeed worthwhile. Worthwile to be on my pcar. That is why i ask so much. More info better decision. I just really want something better than the bose for not much money and mod. I would never do a evhudson. The most i would probably do is ms8 but that is still a question. Ryem3 speaker mod plus basslink sub more likely with everything stock.
 
  #60  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:32 PM
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Question really is will those mods all be worth it or is it just a waste of money and if that is the only mod in the sound system...just stay with oem.
 

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