Thanks Protomotive!
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Originally Posted by geetee
I wonder if its wired like the Audi's where BC is hooked up in parallel with the N75 valve?
U take out the N75 and put in the Greddy controll valve... thats how Proto does it... and I knoe he has a program written for it.
In any event... My car has it and it works great... and IM not even on a 996TT software...
mark
In any event... My car has it and it works great... and IM not even on a 996TT software...
mark
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2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
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2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
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Originally Posted by SMR
Do not understand exaktly, but the greddy BC they use is a standalone boost controller that do everything it can to hold the preset boost level, like 1,2 bar...If the fuel is bad and the car is detonating the timing would be pulled, but it has no controll over the boost, if you use stock motronic the boost also would be pulled
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Originally Posted by MARKSKI
Yes I know about the autronic BC valve... no Im using the greddy just liek in the P car. My tuner used to do rally cars,, he is good.
Im not sure which box it is but it just snaps into the exisiting harness behind the glove box...
Im not sure which box it is but it just snaps into the exisiting harness behind the glove box...
I have also done rally cars..
You have a Autronic PaP unit for a evo 8 then, very nice unit, i do alot of them for Evo,Subbaru and car like that over here...On the Autronic it doesn matter how you controll boost becouse it has no knock control
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wg control vs. engine protection
To answer your question, there are many levels of protection integrated into the factory motronics, above and beyond boost control.
The knock sensing on these things is outstanding... Just playing around, I've had 36deg in the map and seen 14deg output on the pst2 once it normalize the ignition timing to the current settings. The older 993tt's could only move it around 7.5deg, and even then, it was very crude by comparison.
After the knock sensing, it will retard the camshaft to prevent engine damage. By retarding the camshaft it lowers the static compression and allows much more timing to be run.
But yes, you want to run the boost allotted for the appropriate fuel.
With the wg controllers installed in the cars we're able to run a very broad range of boost. Let's say on Vralexanders car, he can run as low as .6 bar to .85 bar where he makes about 650 crank hp on pump fuel, and the motronics is mapped accordingly, from there, he can run on midrange fuels, like 100-103 octane to around 1.3-1.4 bar for 850-900hp at the crank, then from around 1.5 up to a fuel limited 1.75 bar on C16.
The 1000hp MAF we run in these systems compensates very well and gives us a beautiful fuel curve regardless of the boost settings, even in open loop...
The timing is adjusted according to boost levels internally in the motronics mapped out by rpm and load, which is a derivative of boost and volumetric efficiency.
The factory load maps are maxed out at 191% load, which would normally correllate to around 1 bar of boost, and they're done.
We've expanded that range and are hitting the 191% load at around 1.7-1.8 bar and are able to calibrate completely, anything within that range and not have to resort to wide open throttle type calibrations that you may see with a maxed out stock MAF that only reads to 490hp, or a pressure transducer that's clamped to 1.3 bar, creating a dumb system anywhere above those levels.
Sure, someone could damage an engine. The clients that are purchasing these systems have been very hands on and very knowledgable about turbo cars. Most have many very high hp cars in their stables as well.
The Evo flashloader does a similar thing but using a different method. They adjust the boost with the motronics, and change tables at the same time to be mapped according to the program you're running. Now, you wouldn't hit the race gas button if you were on pump fuel? Or would you?
Same deal, you wouldn't punch the w/g controller up on high on pump fuel.
But, on our systems, without the clamped pressure sensor, you're always able to view realtime boost on the factory gauge. So, you know what you're running in terms of boost and aren't blindfolded to what's going on.
Typically, though, if you get some bad fuel, you know it right away. The car doesn't feel right, it'll just drop a ton of power/torque, and you open your eyes to what's happening.
The knock sensing on these things is outstanding... Just playing around, I've had 36deg in the map and seen 14deg output on the pst2 once it normalize the ignition timing to the current settings. The older 993tt's could only move it around 7.5deg, and even then, it was very crude by comparison.
After the knock sensing, it will retard the camshaft to prevent engine damage. By retarding the camshaft it lowers the static compression and allows much more timing to be run.
But yes, you want to run the boost allotted for the appropriate fuel.
With the wg controllers installed in the cars we're able to run a very broad range of boost. Let's say on Vralexanders car, he can run as low as .6 bar to .85 bar where he makes about 650 crank hp on pump fuel, and the motronics is mapped accordingly, from there, he can run on midrange fuels, like 100-103 octane to around 1.3-1.4 bar for 850-900hp at the crank, then from around 1.5 up to a fuel limited 1.75 bar on C16.
The 1000hp MAF we run in these systems compensates very well and gives us a beautiful fuel curve regardless of the boost settings, even in open loop...
The timing is adjusted according to boost levels internally in the motronics mapped out by rpm and load, which is a derivative of boost and volumetric efficiency.
The factory load maps are maxed out at 191% load, which would normally correllate to around 1 bar of boost, and they're done.
We've expanded that range and are hitting the 191% load at around 1.7-1.8 bar and are able to calibrate completely, anything within that range and not have to resort to wide open throttle type calibrations that you may see with a maxed out stock MAF that only reads to 490hp, or a pressure transducer that's clamped to 1.3 bar, creating a dumb system anywhere above those levels.
Sure, someone could damage an engine. The clients that are purchasing these systems have been very hands on and very knowledgable about turbo cars. Most have many very high hp cars in their stables as well.
The Evo flashloader does a similar thing but using a different method. They adjust the boost with the motronics, and change tables at the same time to be mapped according to the program you're running. Now, you wouldn't hit the race gas button if you were on pump fuel? Or would you?
Same deal, you wouldn't punch the w/g controller up on high on pump fuel.
But, on our systems, without the clamped pressure sensor, you're always able to view realtime boost on the factory gauge. So, you know what you're running in terms of boost and aren't blindfolded to what's going on.
Typically, though, if you get some bad fuel, you know it right away. The car doesn't feel right, it'll just drop a ton of power/torque, and you open your eyes to what's happening.
Originally Posted by MARKSKI
I will throw out a trick question.... how do the evom cars run 1.5 bars on pump? I know I read many times the gt700s and up run pump files at the saem static boost level as on the race file?
If I could fiind todds email I will post it becasue he expalined it to me...
ist not as simple as some think but can be done.
If I could fiind todds email I will post it becasue he expalined it to me...
ist not as simple as some think but can be done.
Neither GIAC, EVO etc.. has anything to do with a boost controller or the question in hand so not sure why you're bringing them into it....
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Originally Posted by TRK
To answer your question, there are many levels of protection integrated into the factory motronics, above and beyond boost control.
The knock sensing on these things is outstanding... Just playing around, I've had 36deg in the map and seen 14deg output on the pst2 once it normalize the ignition timing to the current settings. The older 993tt's could only move it around 7.5deg, and even then, it was very crude by comparison.
After the knock sensing, it will retard the camshaft to prevent engine damage. By retarding the camshaft it lowers the static compression and allows much more timing to be run.
But yes, you want to run the boost allotted for the appropriate fuel.
With the wg controllers installed in the cars we're able to run a very broad range of boost. Let's say on Vralexanders car, he can run as low as .6 bar to .85 bar where he makes about 650 crank hp on pump fuel, and the motronics is mapped accordingly, from there, he can run on midrange fuels, like 100-103 octane to around 1.3-1.4 bar for 850-900hp at the crank, then from around 1.5 up to a fuel limited 1.75 bar on C16.
The 1000hp MAF we run in these systems compensates very well and gives us a beautiful fuel curve regardless of the boost settings, even in open loop...
The timing is adjusted according to boost levels internally in the motronics mapped out by rpm and load, which is a derivative of boost and volumetric efficiency.
The factory load maps are maxed out at 191% load, which would normally correllate to around 1 bar of boost, and they're done.
We've expanded that range and are hitting the 191% load at around 1.7-1.8 bar and are able to calibrate completely, anything within that range and not have to resort to wide open throttle type calibrations that you may see with a maxed out stock MAF that only reads to 490hp, or a pressure transducer that's clamped to 1.3 bar, creating a dumb system anywhere above those levels.
Sure, someone could damage an engine. The clients that are purchasing these systems have been very hands on and very knowledgable about turbo cars. Most have many very high hp cars in their stables as well.
The Evo flashloader does a similar thing but using a different method. They adjust the boost with the motronics, and change tables at the same time to be mapped according to the program you're running. Now, you wouldn't hit the race gas button if you were on pump fuel? Or would you?
Same deal, you wouldn't punch the w/g controller up on high on pump fuel.
But, on our systems, without the clamped pressure sensor, you're always able to view realtime boost on the factory gauge. So, you know what you're running in terms of boost and aren't blindfolded to what's going on.
Typically, though, if you get some bad fuel, you know it right away. The car doesn't feel right, it'll just drop a ton of power/torque, and you open your eyes to what's happening.
The knock sensing on these things is outstanding... Just playing around, I've had 36deg in the map and seen 14deg output on the pst2 once it normalize the ignition timing to the current settings. The older 993tt's could only move it around 7.5deg, and even then, it was very crude by comparison.
After the knock sensing, it will retard the camshaft to prevent engine damage. By retarding the camshaft it lowers the static compression and allows much more timing to be run.
But yes, you want to run the boost allotted for the appropriate fuel.
With the wg controllers installed in the cars we're able to run a very broad range of boost. Let's say on Vralexanders car, he can run as low as .6 bar to .85 bar where he makes about 650 crank hp on pump fuel, and the motronics is mapped accordingly, from there, he can run on midrange fuels, like 100-103 octane to around 1.3-1.4 bar for 850-900hp at the crank, then from around 1.5 up to a fuel limited 1.75 bar on C16.
The 1000hp MAF we run in these systems compensates very well and gives us a beautiful fuel curve regardless of the boost settings, even in open loop...
The timing is adjusted according to boost levels internally in the motronics mapped out by rpm and load, which is a derivative of boost and volumetric efficiency.
The factory load maps are maxed out at 191% load, which would normally correllate to around 1 bar of boost, and they're done.
We've expanded that range and are hitting the 191% load at around 1.7-1.8 bar and are able to calibrate completely, anything within that range and not have to resort to wide open throttle type calibrations that you may see with a maxed out stock MAF that only reads to 490hp, or a pressure transducer that's clamped to 1.3 bar, creating a dumb system anywhere above those levels.
Sure, someone could damage an engine. The clients that are purchasing these systems have been very hands on and very knowledgable about turbo cars. Most have many very high hp cars in their stables as well.
The Evo flashloader does a similar thing but using a different method. They adjust the boost with the motronics, and change tables at the same time to be mapped according to the program you're running. Now, you wouldn't hit the race gas button if you were on pump fuel? Or would you?
Same deal, you wouldn't punch the w/g controller up on high on pump fuel.
But, on our systems, without the clamped pressure sensor, you're always able to view realtime boost on the factory gauge. So, you know what you're running in terms of boost and aren't blindfolded to what's going on.
Typically, though, if you get some bad fuel, you know it right away. The car doesn't feel right, it'll just drop a ton of power/torque, and you open your eyes to what's happening.
Some like that way better and some your way
Ps: I have customers that have put wrong fuel in the car and are running around with the BC on the racefuel boost...can you say BOOOM..
Thanks Todd.. I was already going thru my 2000 emails u sent me looking for the answer LOL
markski
markski
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
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Yes, everyone has their own methods.
I'm sure Porsche would be simply appalled at any of the mods being done to these cars. Of course they're PERFECT when they come out of the factory ;p
As long as the clients like what we do, we'll keep doing it
It's simply amazing the progress that's been made on these cars. From the 03 European car shootout to now, the hp numbers have nearly doubled! And Jamies car we just ran on pump fuel to 575rwhp and 600rwtq prior to going to VP103 was enough to easily win the shootout and all the cars there were on VP, not pump!
So, as clients, you can sit back and enjoy the ride. While we're busy behind the scenes scheming up new ways to make you guys happy
I'm sure Porsche would be simply appalled at any of the mods being done to these cars. Of course they're PERFECT when they come out of the factory ;p
As long as the clients like what we do, we'll keep doing it
It's simply amazing the progress that's been made on these cars. From the 03 European car shootout to now, the hp numbers have nearly doubled! And Jamies car we just ran on pump fuel to 575rwhp and 600rwtq prior to going to VP103 was enough to easily win the shootout and all the cars there were on VP, not pump!
So, as clients, you can sit back and enjoy the ride. While we're busy behind the scenes scheming up new ways to make you guys happy
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Originally Posted by MARKSKI
Kevin and SMR,
The ecu does not know what gas ur running( thats like most stand alone like AEM, autronik, etc)...
The ecu does not know what gas ur running( thats like most stand alone like AEM, autronik, etc)...
But yes, you want to run the boost allotted for the appropriate fuel.
I quit, I dont know ****!! Thanks Guy's
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Originally Posted by TRK
Yes, everyone has their own methods.
I'm sure Porsche would be simply appalled at any of the mods being done to these cars. Of course they're PERFECT when they come out of the factory ;p
As long as the clients like what we do, we'll keep doing it
It's simply amazing the progress that's been made on these cars. From the 03 European car shootout to now, the hp numbers have nearly doubled! And Jamies car we just ran on pump fuel to 575rwhp and 600rwtq prior to going to VP103 was enough to easily win the shootout and all the cars there were on VP, not pump!
So, as clients, you can sit back and enjoy the ride. While we're busy behind the scenes scheming up new ways to make you guys happy
I'm sure Porsche would be simply appalled at any of the mods being done to these cars. Of course they're PERFECT when they come out of the factory ;p
As long as the clients like what we do, we'll keep doing it
It's simply amazing the progress that's been made on these cars. From the 03 European car shootout to now, the hp numbers have nearly doubled! And Jamies car we just ran on pump fuel to 575rwhp and 600rwtq prior to going to VP103 was enough to easily win the shootout and all the cars there were on VP, not pump!
So, as clients, you can sit back and enjoy the ride. While we're busy behind the scenes scheming up new ways to make you guys happy
Todd,
when will you be able to know if Jamies car hit 700rwhp? also what dyno was the numbers attained on?
TIA
Jag
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So, Todd, you are saying that the knock sensing on the OEM engine management is excellent? That, along w/ skilled tuning in large part explains why there are so few blown motors.
I believe that you also said that above 490 hp, the system loses its knock sensitivity unless the MAF is upgraded? I would like to someday install the modified Mustang MAF that you have designed. Is itabout 1K? I assume that I would need a new ECU tune, yes?
I believe that you also said that above 490 hp, the system loses its knock sensitivity unless the MAF is upgraded? I would like to someday install the modified Mustang MAF that you have designed. Is itabout 1K? I assume that I would need a new ECU tune, yes?
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Excellent thread! Just out of curiousity what does everyone run in their cars daily? What brands of fuel are considered superior? Are there differences in fuel quality from coast to coast from the same brand?