Paul, insane! I am going to "hurt" your feeling :-) a little more: I've read rumor (will check article tonight when I am home) that the rarest of rare 911's, the 959, recently sold in the US for about same price as your new 911 Turbo!
450k also brings you *well* into CGT territory here in the US.

I know all along why there are so few Australians in this forum: Serious "ammunition" needed to own these cars there. (Taiwan is another place I think with stratospheric Porsche price level.) Hat off to you for such dedication to Porsche and this hobby.

dinorocz: All GT2/GT3 at this point use the Mezger engine. It will be very interesting to see what next gen. GT class Porsche will have for engine. I thought they need to use same Mezger engine as the race cars for homologation purpose (race car to be production based, etc.), but I am not sure as I've also read that Porsche might have some surprise for next gen. GT2//GT3. Whether this means the end of the Mezger engine in GT class Porsche, I don't know. If it does, then current GT2 RS and GT3 RS will be among the most valued 911's of all times. (Anyone pls correct me as needed if you have "better" rumor.)

 

Dino/Can we have things here like import duty, LCT (luxury car tax), stamp duty, GST, etc. For eg: LCT imposes a 33% tariff onto the price of any car priced over $57,466.00, then there's +5% stamp duty on cars over $43,500. Under that figure it's 3% here in NSW. Import duty is currently 5% on cars like this, and then there is another 10% for GST. To sumarize that: 5% + 33% + 10% +5% = 53%. Then I doubt PCA gets the same pricing on the cars from PAG due to the lower volumes sold here i guess, else PCA (porsche cars australia) is ensuring adequate profitability so the dealership business model is viable for those few appointed dealers. It's a vicious cycle unfortunately but the Govt is the main culprit in stifling imports in a bid to somehow protect the local car manufacturing that exists here which is VERY heavily subsidised by Govt (taxpayers money). Crazy really. Then, the Govt has FBT (Fringe benefit tax) so if you lease any car through your business or, have it supplied as part of your salary package you will pay up to 27% of the purchase price every year of ownership regardless of how old the car gets so basically if you want to buy a car like this it's cheaper to fund the purchase outside of any business or salary arrangement. There are ways of reducing the FBT percentage but that basically requires walking through a heavily laden minefield and dare you slip up. Also you can only claim depreciation on the values of cars under the 57,466K threshold. It's pretty punishing but you try not to worry about that stuff. The incentive here is to own a worthless piece of junk and keep your money working for you or have it tied up in a car of say 57,466K or less....preferably locally produced. Aussies are generally pretty used to this mindless robbery so nothing much changes here other than the odd increase the Govt can slide in here and there. EG: the last change of govt (to Labor...ew) lifted the LCT from 27% to 33%. Everyone was just so happy about that:roll eyes: The Porsche/Merc/BMW dealers were ecstatic . I think the govt would be happy to send P dealers broke over here along with anyone else able to put together an earn without govt assistance or handouts. It's sad really but us Porsche owners over here do our best to stay happy. +Life could be worse without one. So we keep working and paying a lot of tax......+P tax.

 

Rolling start times were started by 800+ hp cars with large laggy turbo owners who didn't want to give up their low profile non R-compound tires while having limited driving/launching skills besides making a rolling gear shift.

There's a reason the overwhelming majority of people are interested in zero ~>anyspeed times. They experience that every time they drive their car and can all relate. There's a reason why all sanctioned linear racing starts from a stop.

I don't pay much attention to 0-60 times like the majority, but 1/4 mile time-slips broken down into multiple line-items tell me everything about a car's linear performance - including the vital elements of traction and lag. Traction is a key factor in a car's performance because without it, you don't go forward. With lag, a Prius will be at the next block before you while you pass him at twice his speed. Such is an example of ETs vs trap speeds. ETs win races while trap speeds are a great real world determination of hp numbers - much better than any dyno.

John H

 

Don't worry Can. Us Aussies are so far beyond hurt we have gone the full 180 and are now delirious with joy . But we are amused by how you Americans cry hardly done by with your P car pricing though. You guys truly have no idea just how lucky you are. You lucky lucky lucky boys!! It is actually me that has to take my hat off to you! Being able to buy a late model 997tt for 80/90K would be a fantasy over here....a dream come true.

Now ever fancy a 458? Take a look at this. It will bring tears to your eyes. http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...carhome&Nne=15

or even perhaps a good low mileage GT2? These are for the poor folks (JK). PS. And this car would've sold for well over 500K when new so it's a bargain, you better believe it!

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...e=15&__Dx=mode matchany&__D=GT2&silo=1011&seot=1&__sid=13047008BC CC&__N=1216 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294963765 4294963707&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceS ort_Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_Stri ng|0&__Qpb=1&__Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Cr=1&__Ntt=GT2&trecs=9

 

Ouch ouch and ouch.... unreal.

 

In terms of what's best IMHO - relative marks out of 10:

997.1 tip (stock) = 5/10
997.1 manual (stock) = 7/10
997.1 manual with upgraded suspension = 8/10
997.1 manual with upgraded suspension+engine = 9/10

997.2 PDK (stock) = 8.5/10
997.2 manual (stock) = 8/10

997.2 S PDK (stock) = 9/10

Other than me having a bit more torque and a little sharper handling there really isn't much between my car and a Turbo S to drive.[/quote]
Yes,interesting that you rate the stock 997.2 S on a par with 997.1 + suspension + engine upgrades.My feelings too.I also agree with those who say that pdk enables the use of the lower gears,with impunity,plus it is IMHO fun to use too!In fact,the gen 2 is,in fact,much more than a gen 1 with modded suspension.Porsche put a lot of development into gen 2 to combine fine handling with the best ride yet of any 911.Development that a pennilless dork bolting on some Bilsteins can not match.Someone with a gen 1 turbo,after riding in a gen 2,was considering copying the spring rates and sway bar specs of the gen 2 and installing them on his gen 1.However,I thought that he might fall short of the gen 2 standards of ride and handling,without the active engine mounts,lower c of g of the newer engine etc. I have read a number of comments about the Metzger engine being the better one to modify,but consider this;the new engine can surpass 600bhp with just re map plus exhaust!Metzger can not make this power with out the expense of changing the turbos.Are we not confusing the limits of the current pdk with the limit of the engine?Yes,pdk can not handle much more than 600bhp,but the engine is capable of a lot more.I believe there was a reported failure of a con rod,but at very high power levels (800bhp plus),surely enough for 95% of modifiers?Anyone know any more details about this failure? Sure,you could specify manual instead of pdk,but very few do.Pdk must be worth the equivalent of at least 80bhp.It's the future-I reckon even Gt3's and Gt2's will have pdk next time round! Responding to he who said I was "slapping the dolphin", let me make it clear that I do not advocate cruely to animals in any way!And who ever started this "Cannga the penniless dork" business,let me say I disagree!Cannga might only be able to dream of owning a gen 2 turbo or a 991 turbo,but a Bilstein suspension kit does cost a pretty penny,man!Anyone who can afford one of those is not on food stamps,man and has earned the respect and admiration of the civlised world and mine too!

 

Yes,interesting that you rate the stock 997.2 S on a par with 997.1 + suspension + engine upgrades.My feelings too.I also agree with those who say that pdk enables the use of the lower gears,with impunity,plus it is IMHO fun to use too!In fact,the gen 2 is,in fact,much more than a gen 1 with modded suspension.Porsche put a lot of development into gen 2 to combine fine handling with the best ride yet of any 911.Development that a pennilless dork bolting on some Bilsteins can not match.Someone with a gen 1 turbo,after riding in a gen 2,was considering copying the spring rates and sway bar specs of the gen 2 and installing them on his gen 1.However,I thought that he might fall short of the gen 2 standards of ride and handling,without the active engine mounts,lower c of g of the newer engine etc. I have read a number of comments about the Metzger engine being the better one to modify,but consider this;the new engine can surpass 600bhp with just re map plus exhaust!Metzger can not make this power with out the expense of changing the turbos.Are we not confusing the limits of the current pdk with the limit of the engine?Yes,pdk can not handle much more than 600bhp,but the engine is capable of a lot more.I believe there was a reported failure of a con rod,but at very high power levels (800bhp plus),surely enough for 95% of modifiers?Anyone know any more details about this failure? Sure,you could specify manual instead of pdk,but very few do.Pdk must be worth the equivalent of at least 80bhp.It's the future-I reckon even Gt3's and Gt2's will have pdk next time round! Responding to he who said I was "slapping the dolphin", let me make it clear that I do not advocate cruely to animals in any way!And who ever started this "Cannga the penniless dork" business,let me say I disagree!Cannga might only be able to dream of owning a gen 2 turbo or a 991 turbo,but a Bilstein suspension kit does cost a pretty penny,man!Anyone who can afford one of those is not on food stamps,man and has earned the respect and admiration of the civlised world and mine too![/quote]

Yikes. Punctuation and paragraphs are your friend.

 

..Thats some funny stuff troy38. I gotta hand it to you man.

PS. +1 and agree with Ed. Let paragraphs and punctuation be your friend.

Maybe cannga has some words of wisdom he wishes to impart?

 

Paul, I am on the coast of California, other poster is in Mississippi.
You may not know, but as far as counting pennies, that's like Melbourne versus tenting in the outback.
(Having fun here guys, don't mean any disrespect for Mississippi.)

I actually think he's some kid/young guy (not an insulting remark) having fun with us. Or a salesman at a Porsche dealer. For sure, a Porsche enthusiast. That's cool & why I stopped responding.

 

Hehe. Gotcha on that. I must say he's been a laugh a minute

I'm out.

 

[quote=troy38;3355008]In terms of what's best IMHO - relative marks out of 10:


Porsche put a lot of development into gen 2 to combine fine handling with the best ride yet of any 911.Development that a pennilless dork bolting on some Bilsteins can not match.Someone with a gen 1 turbo,after riding in a gen 2,was considering copying the spring rates and sway bar specs of the gen 2 and installing them on his gen 1.

Where did you get that information from my friend?
Bilstein is the OEM parts supplier of struts assemblies and shock for Porsche.
It's been in the car racing business for over seventy years and in the auto industry since 1920. Money that they invest in suspension development are not penny.
To say that their products are of less quality them the OEM doesn't make any sense as they are the ones who makes it .
One needs to drive a stock 997.1, 997.2 and tuned 997.1 to make it's own decision.Porsche is not about performance numbers on paper but, rather about the connection between a driver and the car,
Many drivers are improving their Porsche regardless the model to their likings-their is always a room for improvement-for the owner achieving a "car perfection" is what Porsche is all about regardless if is the 911. 930,964,993,996,997.1 or 997.2

 

Hey,I just heard on the grape vine that a guy with a red 911 and a noisy exhaust has just been forclosed on and has had to move into his beach hut.I guess that means our friend Cannga-I guess that cargraphic exhaust meant missing one payment too many...Now,I'm pretty sure that they don't waste too much time foreclosing on beach huts.That's right,the repo man comes round and busts those huts up for firewood.That's ok though,on this site a man isn't judged by his real estate assets,no sir,he's judged by his Bilsteins and the size of his exhaust pipe.On that basis Cannga has some serious credentials-he is a great man!Now let me make a fair offer man,from one great man to another-if it comes to it and you are out on your ***,homeless and "driving the streets"-head east to Mississippi!You can stay in my Mississippi mansion for a while and there might even be a position open as,"house boy".Troy doesn't let his buddies and fellow Porsche enthusiasts down!Lastly,I don't want to hear anyone on this site coining the phrase,"penniless dork"-it isn't nice and it isn't funny!It stops here and it stops now!

 

 

^^^I think poster is just upset. The young man is "joking around" but I could sense "steam" rising - leave him be and cut him some slack because at least he's a Porsche enthusiast.
I didn't realize it wasn't serious discussion and must have pushed the "wrong button."

 

Cann - thanks for all your contribution of you sharing your knowledge and opinions. I am shopping for a used 997 and I was torn b/t .1 and .2. Knowing that I want a manual (just personal choice) and I dont care too much about NAV/BT, I am seriously considering .1 with mid 20-30k miles. BTW, Ive read your detailed Bilstein thread. It was awesome