Yes you are talking about the Viper ACR. Big deal. Who wants to drive that on public roads? And, ofcourse you would say that GM haven't tried lying about Ring times... its only recently that they started developing their cars there (with great results). Yet you are still missing the point of my post.

 

Driving is a drug too me, some like it different than others....is the GTR for me ...no...but I still respect the car and the people that own one. Because its a very credible, amazing performing sports car.

 

Amen brother! Thats what matters! We all love the same thing! Just different taste. Its like women. Yes, there are some universally hot women, that everyone likes... but for the most part we all have different taste (which makes sure there aren't that many lonely people, and greater diversity).

 

Check out the light blue and green markers, both cars were fairly even in the corner leading up to the long straight.



The Enzo also had some mechanical troubles with its suspension when it set that fast lap, it could have gone faster in my opinion. Also the Enzo, Zonda and MC12 were all driven by a driver with very limited experience with the car, all three could have gone faster. In saying that the ZR1 looses out on weight but gains it in torque.

Corvette ZR1, 647 PS/1519 kg / 604 ft lbs @ 3800 rpm
Ferrari Enzo, 660 PS/1365 kg / 485 ft lbs @ 5500 rpm
Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, 641 PS/1230 kg / N/A
Maserati MC12, 632 PS/1335 kg / 480.9 ft lbs @ 5500 rpm



No one has their nickers in a bunch with the ZR1 this is because people know why it's fast. It uses a more advanced MRC suspension like the Ferrari 599 which helps it go around corners, it uses brakes like those used by the Enzo and FXX which helps it stop, it has a strong and torqy motor like the ACR which helps propel the thing, and finally it has huge tires like those used by its direct competitors.

The Nissan GTR has inferior numbers in all department compared to all the cars listed above. Independent tests on skid pads and slalom course also doesnt show a significant enough gain to make up for the GTR's straight line disadvantage.

Nissan GTR, 483 PS/1750 kg / 434 ft lbs @ 3200 rpm

Finally Ferrari and Porsche can charge extravegant amounts of $$$$ because they sell Ferrari's and Porsche's. People buy these cars for something more than it's performance. Porsche doesnt care if a competitor steps up to its price level and performance, they simply make a better model. What they do care is if a competitor cheats in its performance claims.

 

monaroCountry, not trying to fight on here. I love all the cars. Once again, its all theories and numbers. Ultimately, is it really that important?

Look at everything else I wrote.

Also, as I have mentioned on a previous post, it will be interesting to see what numbers show up in CAR's July issue. 2010 GT-R vs. 997 GT3 Mark 2 vs. GT-R Spec V. All being driven by a skilled Zakspeed driver who also happens to participate in the 24 hour Nurburgring races. Unbiased driver (as far as we know), driving cars that should be stock (apparently the regular GT-R has been a UK spec daily driver for the author who has also driven it from the UK to Germany). Do I think he will get the same numbers that Suzuki and Rohrl? No, for the same reasons you stated above. The key will be to see how close the cars are to the "official" numbers, and to see which cars are ultimately quicker. I am actually a bit antsy to find out!

 

Where has GM lied? they advertised the ZR1 as a car capable of 7:26 this car has similar performance figures as those around it. They also advertised the CTS-V as a 7:59 car which is again in line with other cars with similar specs.

Nissan on the other hand has the 473hp R35 lapping a similar time to the 641ps Zonda and the 270hp R33 a similar time to the 550hp CTS-V



Your argument sound well and good BUT should companies be able to mislead potential buyers by false advertising? Just because we cant drive that fast doesn't mean that the car shouldn't be able to go that fast STOCK. Imagine if Dodge started advertising the ACR as a 100mpg car or Toyota adverted the Prius as a 10sec quarter mile car .


There are many other faster Nurburgring cars that is cheaper than the ZR1.

7:12* -- 171.67 km/h - Radical SR3 Turbo, 320 PS/500 kg - CHEAPER
7:14.89 171.18 km/h - Donkervoort D8 270 RS, 350 PS/600 kg - CHEAPER
7:18.01 170.24 km/h - Donkervoort D8 RS, 370 PS/670 kg - CHEAPER
7:19* -- 169.93 km/h - Radical SR3 1500 Turbo - CHEAPER
7:22.1 - 169.74 km/h - 2009 Dodge Viper ACR, 600 PS/1488 kg - CHEAPER

 

Right, and is there ANY quote by Nissan stating it is a "stock standard car"? Disclosure of wheels/tires doesn't mean other things weren't tweaked.

 

Those other faster cars though road legal, you wouldn't be able to pick up groceries, nor would you want to drive them on a regular basis. I have been in Donkervoorts as well as the Radical. They are really just track day tools. I think the same way about the Viper ACR. Useless on the road. Oh and Dodge set up the suspension and the downforce to suit specifically to the Nordschleife.

I give up... you guys have fun with all your numbers and magazines.... or even break out the meter stick .

I will wait to see what numbers come up in the CAR magazine article.

 

You know I would be interested in a GTR can anyone find me one of the " Ring " cars?

 

Good point regarding "practicality". We don't know how well the suspension was tuned for the other cars, but judging by their price points and pedigree, probably quite well.

The ZR1 has magnetic shocks so not much more tuning could be done...check out how much the driver "saws" on the wheel vs. the ACR. Also the ACR hits the rev limiter a few times.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080901....e-zr1-on-video

 

The ZR1 is really more of a hyper 599 GTB than a full on race car like the Viper. I mean has anyone ever read the ACR's parts list? It literally reads like a race car, and also it came with a team of engineers to the " Ring " . Its really a surprise it came so close to the adjustable suspension/ aero ACR. I guess its just a testament to its inherent chasssis and reasonably light weight compared to other hyper GT cars.

And the widely disputed production car " Ring " record holder is none other than the Radical SR8, but you would have to have big brass cojones to drive this everyday...way bigger than the Viper...if you could make it legal in the US.

 

Not much tuning could be done? Do you even know what magnetic shocks are? There are still spring rates, and the whole spectrum of suspension bits.

The ZR-1 is also driving on PS2's with rwd and 630 hp, a little correction is always going to be needed in those conditions. Whereas the Dunlops on the GT-R have proven to be even faster than R888's in several instances, and it's also underpowered and AWD so there won't be much correction. And the ACR is on Sport Cups which are also R-comps and has a ton of DF. Even still, put them on street tires and watch the sawing begin.

What about your performance vehicle makes you want to pick up groceries? If you can spend 80k on GT-R you can buy a DD and a "track" vehicle that will cost less to maintain and likely be more durable too.

 

**SPOILER ALERT**



This same topic has been batted (bludgeoned) around on the e9x M3 board. A very nice guy who lives in Ireland has access to the July 2009 CAR issue and posted some of the results. The actual "heads up" test was a GT3 vs. a standard 2010 GT-R. Apparently the VSpec was also tested in that same issue, but not against the GT3. I believe I have that right.

Both cars were piloted by an independent driver, Andy Gülden, who according to his bio knows the ring well enough to drive it blind.

He recorded a 7:51 in the GT-R . In the 997.2 GT3, he ran a 7:49.

Enjoy.

 

heavychevy - we have been comparing road cars.... thats why I mentioned that. Otherwise, just like you said, buy a track car. That is a whole other discussion. In this discussion, practicality is also a valid point. Why do people discuss, maintenance costs, mileage, interior room, a boot or little rear seats? It matters. We are talking street cars... not Caparos, Radicals, etc. which are only really good for the track.

Here is something to think about... I know two people (one of whom is a first cousin), who were really thinking of pulling the trigger on Veyrons. One is here in the US and the other in Europe. Do you know what the main reason is they didn't? They couldn't do road trips in the cars. They would literally have to FedEx their clothes everywhere. I have been in the car myself. There is no space behind the seats, and the front boot would barely fit in your girlfriends Louis Vuitton bag (depending on how big it is). In Europe you can still argue that it would be fun to take on the high speed roads, and maybe even the tracks. Here in the US... what the hell will you do with it? Drive 25mph in the streets of the suburbs? Take it into Manhattan? So even people who can afford to have a lot of everything, still think of those things. Otherwise, its just showing off.... to say that you have one. Who likes those people?

 

Thank you for that! Do you know what the time was for the Spec V? Can you get more information?

Well, there you go people. 2 seconds difference between the two, towards the Porsche. And using the same unbiased driver, same conditions (I would assume), etc. etc.

I have no problem saying that Nissan has some explaining to do. I can't imagine that Spec V wheels and tires accounted for 24 seconds.

Wonder when there will be info on the Sport Auto Supertest with Saurma.

After these results, I think this debate is now a dead issue.

Cheers.